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C6 Dread Escalation Trigger Spawn Bug [Warning]
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Sleepingbull Askiras
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-11-27 00:01:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Sleepingbull Askiras
I am unsure if this happens in C5s as well as C6s. In C6 space we have found that if you clear every sleeper in the first wave of a sleeper site except the trigger and warp a dread in, the second wave of the sleeper site will ocassionally spawn as well as the dread escalation wave, resulting in a large amount of sleepers.

This bug is occuring in roughly 30% of all the sites I do, 1 in 3 C6 sites has the chance to kill most of our fleet.

We have had it occur in more the one system, and it has occured in Bastions, Citadels, and Mag sites. We have had it occur in more the none system, and it has occured in Bastions, Citadels, and Mag sites.

Has anyone else seen this phenomenon? If you haven't, be careful.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#2 - 2012-11-27 00:10:07 UTC
Ouch thats nasty, tho atleast you don't get the 6x guardian normal site wave heh...

Not seen it happen so far myself.
Pell Helix
Aether Ventures
#3 - 2012-11-27 00:12:32 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Ouch thats nasty, tho atleast you don't get the 6x guardian normal site wave heh...

Not seen it happen so far myself.


You do, you get the second wave AND the escalation wave. Its damn near an instant wipe.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#4 - 2012-11-27 00:17:23 UTC
Was talking about spawn 3 on sites like assembly hall, backup array, etc. not the capital spawn. Getting an extra 6 guardians on top of the capital escalation would be rather nasty.
notanameleft
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-11-27 00:18:12 UTC
yew guise.
Pell Helix
Aether Ventures
#6 - 2012-11-27 00:21:08 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Was talking about spawn 3 on sites like assembly hall, backup array, etc. not the capital spawn. Getting an extra 6 guardians on top of the capital escalation would be rather nasty.


The second wave of most C6 sites has upwards of 5 battleships and a boatload of frigates/cruisers. Ends up with 11+ battleships on the field, which is quite a lot of damage when you aren't expecting it.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#7 - 2012-11-27 00:27:46 UTC
Yeah but a lot of them are wardens (almost half the dps of guardians), etc. pretty nasty none the less but relatively manageable with good fits. Anyhow thats side tracking a bit.

How long has this been happening for?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-11-27 02:16:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Does this happen if you run the sites like a normal person and warp in an archon, loki and dread at the same time right at the start, or only if you kill off first wave -trigger before warping in a dread?

Frankly, if you've killed off the first wave already you should be able to deal with the single dread wave and 2nd normal wave.
Still, good thing to be aware of.

PS: Even if this does happen in a C5 too, the C5 waves are pitiful DPS wise so it wouldn't matter much.

There is no Bob.

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Hathrul
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-11-27 12:30:24 UTC
cant say i have heard anything of the sorts yet. everything spawned as expected.
tgl3
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-11-27 12:35:07 UTC
I believe we encountered it in our c5 the other day. Will need to double check after work, but am pretty sure it happened to our US crowd.
E6o5
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-11-27 14:00:58 UTC
Sleepingbull Askiras wrote:
I am unsure if this happens in C5s as well as C6s. In C6 space we have found that if you clear every sleeper in the first wave of a sleeper site except the trigger and warp a dread in, the second wave of the sleeper site will ocassionally spawn as well as the dread escalation wave, resulting in a large amount of sleepers.

This bug is occuring in roughly 30% of all the sites I do, 1 in 3 C6 sites has the chance to kill most of our fleet.

We have had it occur in more the one system, and it has occured in Bastions, Citadels, and Mag sites. We have had it occur in more the none system, and it has occured in Bastions, Citadels, and Mag sites.

Has anyone else seen this phenomenon? If you haven't, be careful.


Ever considered, that the sleepers adapted their tactics since they can't stand you farmers anymore?
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-11-27 14:43:21 UTC
stealth nerf to farming?

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#13 - 2012-11-27 15:23:31 UTC
I fail to see the issue here. A dread can tank 2 escalation waves, and from the sound of it, this is a total of 11 BS which is 1 less than a double escalation wave, with 5 of them being non-guardians (which do less dps and die really fast to dreads). How could tank be an issue? Even if you are using subcaps, carrier reps should be able to easily hold them up.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#14 - 2012-11-27 15:35:07 UTC
If your not expecting it its pretty nasty but as I was sort of saying earlier its relatively managable compared to getting 6 extra guardians dumped on you aslong as your prepared and using decent dread fits :D
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-11-27 16:28:44 UTC
Angsty Teenager wrote:
I fail to see the issue here. A dread can tank 2 escalation waves, and from the sound of it, this is a total of 11 BS which is 1 less than a double escalation wave, with 5 of them being non-guardians (which do less dps and die really fast to dreads). How could tank be an issue? Even if you are using subcaps, carrier reps should be able to easily hold them up.



alot of the time its not the bs's that are the issue its the frigs and cruiser from the extra normaly wave that web and paint yoru sub caps that then in tern allow the sleeper guardains and other bs to hit much harder

Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#16 - 2012-11-27 17:17:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Thats probably only an issue if your doing sites fairly casually - sig reduction and armor links on a well fit loki allows it to tank atleast 12K dps from a single triage rep with enough EHP to survive sizeable levels of alpha. Rapier a bit of a different story as its hard to give it the EHP to survive the volleys from too many BS once webbed down. Personally I prefer to run a loki with interdiction and infowar links than a rapier tho (but thats just me).
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#17 - 2012-11-28 17:35:40 UTC
Yea, I don't really see how supcaps would be an issue at all really unless you're using t1 resist ships without armor/shield links and without sizeable buffer.

I mean, at one point I was running an armor ECM tengu when I was triple escalating sites. It tanked perfectly fine off roughly 1.5 non-triage archon reps. Only had 80k ehp as well. (ECM tengu isn't really worth by the way, I gave up on using it because it was just another account I had to box and didn't really afford that much use). It came close to dieing a couple times because of me not paying attention and sticking reps on as soon as it got primaried, but you're not triple escalating sites, you only have 1 escalation wave so i don't see the issue.

Also, sleepless guardians web, so I don't really get what you're on about with the extra cruisers etc... Eitherway your subcaps should have enough tank to tank the entire sit sitting still.


I guess the only way this wouldn't be true is if you're running sites without a carrier, and are just jumping into c6 statics with a bunch of RR tengus and moros. I dunno if that'd work, but if that's the case, I can maybe understand why you might die.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#18 - 2012-11-28 18:19:55 UTC
Angsty Teenager wrote:

Also, sleepless guardians web, so I don't really get what you're on about with the extra cruisers etc... Eitherway your subcaps should have enough tank to tank the entire sit sitting still.


Slepper's preferred sig radius comes into play here a bit - guardians tend to concentrate on capitals and web sub-caps relatively less often whereas smaller ships like frigs and cruisers will go for stuff like rapiers much more often. Still if your setup can't deal with the dps from a dozen or so BS when webbed down you probably should be looking to up your game a little.

The real issue tho is the suprise factor - people tend to get complacent running sites when they've done it a dozen times safely so might not even notice at first or react in the best manner when they suddenly have to actually go hands on to survive the site.
WInter Borne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-11-28 19:44:43 UTC  |  Edited by: WInter Borne
The really interesting thing was the fact that the escalation wave stayed after downtime. When i went back to look there was the original spawn of the first wave plus the 6 extra guardians. Having to deal with 10 guardians in addition to the first capital escalation spawn would cause a headache.

Running it like farmers (ie loki, carrier, dread) would cause you to have to deal with 22 guardians on top of the cruisers and frigates (30 guardians if you double dread-scalated).
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#20 - 2012-11-28 20:47:01 UTC
Can't remember off hand if the original capital that spawned that wave still escalates again under those circumstances.

We used to use a rorqual + RR tengus to sort it out when there were too many guardians and we couldn't drop another capital in without further escalating.