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Dev Blog: Happy Safe Fun Time!

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Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2012-11-27 16:29:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Jing Xin wrote:
Is making it persist between sessions on the table? I'd rather just turn it off and not have to deal with various safety settings ever.


I would imagine that having the safety system in "green safe mode" just wouldn't do anything in WH or null space since you don't pick up flags for doing anything there anyway. So if you live in null or WH 100% of the time you would never need to turn it off. Now if you live in lowsec this could certainly be annoying.

Image the hilarity if a lowsec roaming gang jumps into a hostile gang and then discovers that half of the fleet members forgot to turn off their safeties when they logged on.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-11-27 16:35:39 UTC
Shaishi Otichoda wrote:
San Fransisco wrote:
When you log back in after a safe log off will you simply pop into existence and be able to act immediately?
I just tested this and you do 1000000km warp-in just to appear in space 1.8 AU from the spot where you logged out Cool

It looks like there are some issues to be fixed.

jeez... fix this

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Merouk Baas
#63 - 2012-11-27 16:39:42 UTC
Looking forward to the bugs. Like, the thing not letting you perform legal actions, or not turning off server side in time even if you click the button client-side (due to lag), and fleets being completely confused by fleet members having safeties on etc.

Do you have a fleet window status indicator so the FC can see which members are green and which are red etc? So that when the FC calls "safeties off" he can verify that it's been done by everyone?

Do you have a way for a high-sec carebear to tell, in station, which modules will be disabled once he undocks to do high-sec PVE? Cause, as a complete newbie, I'd like to see that smartbombs are red when I fit them, and see an explanation why they're red, so I don't fit them, without having to undock to check.

If all my high-slot guns are disabled due to safeties, can I still overheat them and burn them out for no purpose? Due to misclick, due to being an idiot, whatever the reason, can I?
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-11-27 16:40:42 UTC
Quote:
You cannot be safely logging off while:

You have active modules
You're ejecting from a ship
You have aggression from players or NPCs
Your ship is exploding or self-destructing
You're issuing movement commands
You're launching or jettisoning objects
You're joining a fleet
You're deploying or reconnecting with drones
You have a target lock or are targeted
You're warping
You're decloaking or under gate cloak


I don't see "your ship is moving" there. Does this mean I can align to something, safely log off, watch the timer tick down, and if anyone appears instantly warp off (aborting the timer but saving my ass)?
Ender Sai
Perkone
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-11-27 16:41:24 UTC
IMHO, this is pretty awesome.

I think there is going to be some knee-jerk tears from griefers and gankers and the like, but honestly, I think we're going to see more people blowing themselves up in a conflagration of stupidity after this change.

Despite all the hello kitty esque decorations on the user interface.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#66 - 2012-11-27 16:42:27 UTC
Bado Sten wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

Greetings internet spaceship pilots!

I think we all agree that CONCORDOKKEN is bad, and also quite embarrassing when it happens.

Big smile


No, we don't and yes it is. It's also a valuable learning experience. Just today I got GCC from accidentially hitting my mates fighters with my smart bomb. I did not even know that was criminal.

Please, don't dumb it down to much Straight


only a moron thinks "more clarity of information" = "dumbing down"

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-11-27 16:45:33 UTC
Merouk Baas wrote:
If all my high-slot guns are disabled due to safeties, can I still overheat them and burn them out for no purpose? Due to misclick, due to being an idiot, whatever the reason, can I?

1. Once you know what smartbombs are capable of, you will realise that for 99% of the time you wont need them in hisec
2. You can overheat all you like, if the module isnt active it wont burn out ever

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-11-27 16:45:39 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Quote:
You cannot be safely logging off while:

You have active modules
You're ejecting from a ship
You have aggression from players or NPCs
Your ship is exploding or self-destructing
You're issuing movement commands
You're launching or jettisoning objects
You're joining a fleet
You're deploying or reconnecting with drones
You have a target lock or are targeted
You're warping
You're decloaking or under gate cloak


I don't see "your ship is moving" there. Does this mean I can align to something, safely log off, watch the timer tick down, and if anyone appears instantly warp off (aborting the timer but saving my ass)?

Yes. I just tried it on Buckingham. Aligning will not prevent you from activating safe logoff, and safe logoff will not stop your ship or otherwise interfere with alignment. When you click warp you will warp right away and the timer will be aborted as you described.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Vitamin B12
#69 - 2012-11-27 16:46:03 UTC
regarding login traps:

does my ship warp to the location when i log back in or does it instantly spawn in space?

Capital Ships Related BPC's & BPO's // fair price // fast delivery https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=973041
Josefius
13th Tribe of Kobol Expeditionary
#70 - 2012-11-27 16:46:32 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:


For one thing, this system guarantees that nothing like a "lofty scam"* can happen without the player's explicit consent. Not just that the current implementation of the system happens to not have any loopholes in it (as it is on TQ currently, AFAIK), but that the system simply does not allow it at a fundamental level. By enforcing it on the server as well as the client, it also allows us to catch corner cases which are otherwise-unsolvable.

For example, if a pilot in a war ejects from a ship in space, docks up and leaves the corporation, there's no sound way to tell war targets on grid with the ship that its owner is no longer at war with them without incurring a crippling performance hit on the server (there's an extensive technical reason to do with the way we propagate states that I'm not going to try and remember perfectly here). The end-user experience is that your client believes that ship you're targeting is a legal target, but when the server processes your attack it disagrees and you get CONCORDed. By having a safety system, and by tracking your safety state on the server, we can intervene at the last second and say "hey, that's not a legal target, your safeties are on, so your gun doesn't fire". This is essentially a generalization of the fix that we put in for remote assistance to prevent people getting entire Incursion fleets CONCORDed by having one guy in the rep chain pick up a GCC, to illustrate a completely different situation in which this sort of problem also occurs.



My Sig Saur .40 P229 doesn't have a safety.

You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something, sometime in your life.

-Winston Churchill
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#71 - 2012-11-27 16:46:46 UTC
I too am interested to know if you use safe log off and then log back in if you're just sitting in space ready to act.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2012-11-27 16:48:42 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
I too am interested to know if you use safe log off and then log back in if you're just sitting in space ready to act.

No, having just tested this now you appear to cloak in space same as you would if you logged off in a POS, but logging back on you will appear 1M km away and will warp back to where you were (again, same as if you logged off in a POS).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#73 - 2012-11-27 16:48:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Destination SkillQueue
Jiska Ensa wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Eli Green wrote:
Jing Xin wrote:
I hope safety setting is persistent through docking, jumping, logging off. If it constantly defaults to green, some people will be seriously annoyed.

currently unless it has changed since last week it is not persistant Sad


Should be persisted per session, but not currently between sessions (see above). Ie, so long as you stay logged in, it stays the same; log out and it goes back to default.



If you're going to make it go back to "default" every time you log on, I would suggest you make it possible to change the default setting client side. Otherwise, pirates will be unhappy. And when pirates are unhappy, they tend to make life miserable for the rest of us :)


Pretty much this. I understand, that currently it has to reset to something, since the setting can't persist, but couldn't you automate the job? Allow the setting to be applied client side and automaticly have it be sent to the server upon login.

EDIT: Nice changes overall though.
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#74 - 2012-11-27 16:49:26 UTC
Josefius wrote:


My Sig Saur .40 P229 doesn't have a safety.



That's a pretty awful example since most guns do, in fact, have a safety.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#75 - 2012-11-27 16:50:01 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
I too am interested to know if you use safe log off and then log back in if you're just sitting in space ready to act.

No, having just tested this now you appear to cloak in space same as you would if you logged off in a POS, but logging back on you will appear 1M km away and will warp back to where you were (again, same as if you logged off in a POS).



Well, at least they thought of THAT potential fun tactics Cool

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-11-27 16:50:55 UTC
Josefius wrote:
My Sig Saur .40 P229 doesn't have a safety.



Acident waiting to happen...
Ra Jackson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2012-11-27 16:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Ra Jackson
Login traps coming back this December in style ;)
/edit: ah damn, missed the answer :-/
Vitamin B12
#78 - 2012-11-27 16:51:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Vitamin B12
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
I too am interested to know if you use safe log off and then log back in if you're just sitting in space ready to act.

No, having just tested this now you appear to cloak in space same as you would if you logged off in a POS, but logging back on you will appear 1M km away and will warp back to where you were (again, same as if you logged off in a POS).


That seems like dirty hardcoding in the background. So after logging off "safely" i get ported to a 1M KM distant space.

EDIT: dont make the font yellow... Cry

Capital Ships Related BPC's & BPO's // fair price // fast delivery https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=973041
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#79 - 2012-11-27 16:51:45 UTC
Really like the concept of the Safety switch. Reminds me of 'peace-tying' of weapons in the old days. You fly into hi-sec and lock your guns in place, showing that you're not intent on any agressive action, unless directly attacked. Head into lo-sec and "Safety's off." I really like it.

I'd only say I agree with others that if you do try and pull an aggressive act with the safety on, that the safety level pops up and says "You said you didn't want to be up to this kind of business, so if you really really want to, please confirm the next lower safety level to continue with this aggressive act. It's not our fault if you're dokken'd."
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#80 - 2012-11-27 16:54:27 UTC
I'm all for this change. I think it's fantastic. I wont need to click that stupid pop-up in lowsec any-more to say I want to shoot stuff. All the people complaining that Eve is being made too easy are frankly fools. Probably griefers who are incapable of PvPing against anyone who isn't a 2 day old n00b.

This change isn't making Eve easier, it's making it harder. Now all of you "so called" PvPers will be fighting people who actually know what they're doing. Not only that, but there will be less delay between them deciding to fire and you getting killed. The n00bs will still get themselves killed in low and null (Forget to take the safety off? Derp).

Real life guns don't have a pop-up window that asks if your sure you want to shoot at someone, they have a safety. And if you forget to take that safety off your dead, likewise, if you leave it off all the time, your going to make mistakes.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf