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Solo Mining in fully upgraded Alliance Null sec
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ahleck zentaki
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-11-26 04:24:30 UTC
For Purposes of my question I am assuming a fully upgraded Alliance owned null sec system, with local and intel channels open/watched..

I have three accounts. In high sec I have 2 hulk.1 orca.


1) is repeating the 2 hulk 1 orca method viable in this scenario?
2) if you could use a rorqual instead of the Orca, would you do that instead? In High sec, I typically mined 250km3 a night during the week, and 2-3x on the weekend. I used to gripe that I had to return to station every so often to dump ore from a single hulk, now my silly orca fills up to fast
a) if you did the rorqual route, would you keep it 150km off the belt in siege mode and then just tractor beam the jet can? (im not actually sure what the max range is on a tractor beam )

I do assume the risk of cyno alts, reds, and so forth. I understand this much, but if you had a solid , mid sized alliance in place..


but . if you were, how would you do it?


POS close enough to belt(s) to tractor beam?
Havoc Zealot
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-11-26 04:41:28 UTC
I would like you to siege your Rorqual in the belt and then tell me what system you are in. <3
ahleck zentaki
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-11-26 04:55:48 UTC
Havoc Zealot wrote:
I would like you to siege your Rorqual in the belt and then tell me what system you are in. <3



take it you say no on seiging rorqual. anything else to actually contribute?
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-11-26 05:05:58 UTC
rorqual stays in pos, compressing or not as you please, but its there to give boosts,
orca hauls like normal to either pos array or rorqual.
hulks drop cans for orca

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#5 - 2012-11-26 05:36:49 UTC
Put the rorqual in the pos when in siege. Siege lasts 5 minutes and you cannot warp or move during that time. It's still a good pick up cans ship with the capital tractors, which have 100km range (I think). In null, you will be able to mine more ore than you can haul realistically, so you will want one eventually for compression.

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Khadrea Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
#6 - 2012-11-26 05:57:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Khadrea Shakor
As stated, keep the Rorqual at a [online] POS at all times, deployed or not. Properly maintained intel channels are good and whatnot, but it's just a matter of time that either a CovOps/Recon sneaks through or (and this does happen) a WH gang drops a Dread or two on your Rorq.

Btw, the Capital Tractor Beam II range is 240km.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#7 - 2012-11-26 07:31:57 UTC
Keep in mind that in the future (as in possibly early next year), they plan on removing OGB. I do not know how / what their plans are for the mining boost ships (Orca and Rorq), but they stated specifically they want boosting to be on grid with combat.

Plan your skills accordingly. ;)

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Dave Stark
#8 - 2012-11-26 08:34:48 UTC
ahleck zentaki wrote:
1) is repeating the 2 hulk 1 orca method viable in this scenario?
2) if you could use a rorqual instead of the Orca, would you do that instead? In High sec, I typically mined 250km3 a night during the week, and 2-3x on the weekend. I used to gripe that I had to return to station every so often to dump ore from a single hulk, now my silly orca fills up to fast
a) if you did the rorqual route, would you keep it 150km off the belt in siege mode and then just tractor beam the jet can? (im not actually sure what the max range is on a tractor beam )


1) yes.
2) depends how badly you want to be on evenews24 for taking your rorq out of a pos.
FullBoat
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-11-26 09:07:07 UTC
Keep in mind it's been a while since I've been in null sec.

How I worked it out is I had my Hulk out in the belt mining, and my Roqual about 120k from him. One of the high slots had a cloak in it. So if a red/newt came into the system, I hit the cloak first, then warped my Hulk out.

Now I was in a dead end system, so I only had to worry about 1 gate.
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#10 - 2012-11-26 11:56:42 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Keep in mind that in the future (as in possibly early next year), they plan on removing OGB. I do not know how / what their plans are for the mining boost ships (Orca and Rorq), but they stated specifically they want boosting to be on grid with combat.

Plan your skills accordingly. ;)



No they dont, just like ring mining its a want not a will happen. And they are refering to Combat boosters. Not mining. Removing off grid boosting would kill the rorq, no one would EVER use it ever again. maby for some crunching but never for boosting.


To OP you need to evaluate if your hulks can tank/kill the belt rats. As rats in null belts are the biggest problem. If you can handle it with 2 hulks alone then use an orca otherwise your going to need to swap one of the hulks every hour 45. This is null you dont have to worry about can flippers so jetcan mining is a must and hands down the most profitable way. But if you cant handle the belt rats with just 2 hulks you need to put the third into a combat ship to kill them, Most nullsec miners now have a dedicated belt tank for this ie like a domi, proph or tank drake but with ai changing in december all the hulks need a decent tank.
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#11 - 2012-11-26 15:49:08 UTC
if you go the rorq route, keep it in a pos as others have suggested. also, be cautious of which pos you keep it at. large alliances often have staging or jb poses. many people have the passwords to these, if they even are password protected. i'd suggest using a corp or your own pos if possible. rorqs can be bumped out of pos range and i believe this may also be possible while in siege mode. gl.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#12 - 2012-11-26 16:27:36 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Keep in mind that in the future (as in possibly early next year), they plan on removing OGB. I do not know how / what their plans are for the mining boost ships (Orca and Rorq), but they stated specifically they want boosting to be on grid with combat.

Plan your skills accordingly. ;)

Well this is still heavily debated. But it does seem very likely that boosting from within a POS shield will be removed even if OGB is still allowed.

As far as it affecting combat boosting an not industrial boosting as others have said, well I believe they use the same mechanics. So having it affect combat and not industrial boosting is very unlikely as it would create way more work.


I believe it will come down to, if you want boosts you have to put the boosting ship at risk. The only issue is whether that booster will be of grid at a safe spot or have to be on grid. But I am 90% sure boosting from inside a POS shield will soon be nothing more than a memory.

I do recall reading something about POSes no longer being restricted to being anchored at moons when the POS revamp comes around. But there are a lot of idea's under discussion including the removal of POS shields completely. Also about POSes being built in networks tied together to make big space cities. What ever the final decissions are I hope the POS revamp comes sooner than later.

I only bring it up as the two may be related. They may not change the boosting mechanics at all and just remove POS shields. You could still park at the POS and receive protection from its defenses, but no longer hide inside a shield?
Fish Hunter
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-11-26 19:17:30 UTC
Here's what I have found works good for me.
I have 1 character boosting orca or rorqual in pos
1 hulk jetcanning
1 mackinaw mining & hauling
Fluffy Sheep
Contra Operative Knights
#14 - 2012-11-27 00:15:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffy Sheep
^ Exactly the same as you except it's
1* orca booster at pos
1* hulk that jet cans
2 * mackinaws (One of the macks I use to haul and mine in between jumps back to pos)

The Macks are good in this scenario as they don't require a lot of your attention thanks to the large cargo hold.

It'd be nice to see the orca with a larger ore hold. Seems a bit odd having the fleet command / logistics ship with only slightly more ore capacity than some of the barges.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#15 - 2012-11-27 00:59:57 UTC
Zetaomega333 wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Keep in mind that in the future (as in possibly early next year), they plan on removing OGB. I do not know how / what their plans are for the mining boost ships (Orca and Rorq), but they stated specifically they want boosting to be on grid with combat.

Plan your skills accordingly. ;)



No they dont, just like ring mining its a want not a will happen. And they are refering to Combat boosters. Not mining. Removing off grid boosting would kill the rorq, no one would EVER use it ever again. maby for some crunching but never for boosting


http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
.... As a side note, as we announced a while ago, we are not pleased by having Warfare Links work outside the battlefield zone, and will be investigating options to move them on grid. Command and Tech3 ships providing that much of an advantage should commit to an engagement instead of being safely parked inside a POS bubble.

Here is a picture summarizing the text below as a tl;dr version:....



While I agree with you on the problem potential for mining ship boosters, they have neither confirmed nor denied weather or not mining boosters will be included in this change. They use the same mechanics, so it may be hard to separate them from combat boosters. Many have also said they would never change OGB either, and it is incoming.

I tend to plan for the worst and be happy when I am wrong. Cool

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#16 - 2012-11-27 14:07:28 UTC
Fluffy Sheep wrote:
^ Exactly the same as you except it's
1* orca booster at pos
1* hulk that jet cans
2 * mackinaws (One of the macks I use to haul and mine in between jumps back to pos)

The Macks are good in this scenario as they don't require a lot of your attention thanks to the large cargo hold.

It'd be nice to see the orca with a larger ore hold. Seems a bit odd having the fleet command / logistics ship with only slightly more ore capacity than some of the barges.

^^ I agree with this 100%.

With the changes to mining ships. it just does not make sense for the ORCA to have such a small ore hold. It is supposed to be a fleet support ship for mining. 3 max yield hulks can fill it very quickly. 5 Hulks in fleet fill it in minutes. With such a large ore hold in the mackinaw ORCA logistics are almost not worth the bother. In a larger fleet you are better off just using Macks and running ore back your self, with the orca only there for fleet boosts.

The ORCA should have its ore hold expanded to at least 100m3.
ahleck zentaki
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-11-27 18:30:54 UTC
Two hulks fill the orca easily in a sitting. I pull 10400? Every 2 seconds or so with the orca boost
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#18 - 2012-11-27 18:37:27 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Zetaomega333 wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Keep in mind that in the future (as in possibly early next year), they plan on removing OGB. I do not know how / what their plans are for the mining boost ships (Orca and Rorq), but they stated specifically they want boosting to be on grid with combat.

Plan your skills accordingly. ;)



No they dont, just like ring mining its a want not a will happen. And they are refering to Combat boosters. Not mining. Removing off grid boosting would kill the rorq, no one would EVER use it ever again. maby for some crunching but never for boosting


http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
.... As a side note, as we announced a while ago, we are not pleased by having Warfare Links work outside the battlefield zone, and will be investigating options to move them on grid. Command and Tech3 ships providing that much of an advantage should commit to an engagement instead of being safely parked inside a POS bubble.

Here is a picture summarizing the text below as a tl;dr version:....



While I agree with you on the problem potential for mining ship boosters, they have neither confirmed nor denied weather or not mining boosters will be included in this change. They use the same mechanics, so it may be hard to separate them from combat boosters. Many have also said they would never change OGB either, and it is incoming.

I tend to plan for the worst and be happy when I am wrong. Cool


Actually they did confirm right in the quote. They mention Warfare Links not Mining Foreman Links. The two are different; all combat boosters fall into the Warfare Link category while all mining boosters fall into the Mining Foremen Links category.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#19 - 2012-11-27 21:31:58 UTC
I still do not see it. I do see them specifying where they feel the problem is (combat). As I said, I hope you are right, but until I see a CCP post saying "mining boosts will be able to remain off grid", I am not going to bank on it.

As much as I love the idea, I will also be the first to admit what I am sure every pvp'er in game is going to scream when the time comes.

Pot = Kettle.

If they DO move mining boosts on grid, they need to seriously buff the GTFO-ability of both the Orca and the Rorq, or I agree with you in saying they will become next to useless in low sec / 0.0 (without an absolutely enormous protection force).

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Dave Stark
#20 - 2012-11-27 21:45:43 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
I still do not see it. I do see them specifying where they feel the problem is (combat). As I said, I hope you are right, but until I see a CCP post saying "mining boosts will be able to remain off grid", I am not going to bank on it.

As much as I love the idea, I will also be the first to admit what I am sure every pvp'er in game is going to scream when the time comes.

Pot = Kettle.

If they DO move mining boosts on grid, they need to seriously buff the GTFO-ability of both the Orca and the Rorq, or I agree with you in saying they will become next to useless in low sec / 0.0 (without an absolutely enormous protection force).


indeed, if OGB is removed for mining bonuses then you'll be better off putting your orca pilot in a mackinaw and simply providing the 15% yield bonus and hauling for you.

no sane person is going to siege a rorq in a grav site.
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