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Incursion Scimi fitting philosophy ?
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Dek'athor
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-10-21 09:02:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Dek'athor
I'm looking into Incursions to spice things up, and I'm looking into the Logistics role (logi 5 just finished..wee!).

Since I mostly fly minni I went with Scimi. Can get the beast cap stable when firing all 4 reps & AB @ ~36k EHP-ish in one fitting (max cap/remote shield rep skills). I'm partial twords scimi for being cap stable without outside help.

But, I was sitting in the shield fleet channel last nite, and was looking at the fits some other scimi pilots were using. Bout half I saw had 2 tracking links (which makes a bit of sense since Scimi has bonuses to it).

Now for the questions:

1. Are tracking links on the Scimi logi something FC's are looking for?
2. 2 tracking links in the mid, means Afterburner has got to go, or a good chunk of resists has to go. Is this wise?
3. As a compromise, 1 tracking link instead of 2. Would a FC pick a scimi with 2 tracking links but no prop mod over a scimi with 1 tracking link + prop mod ? Personally I'm leaning towards no tracking links and beefing up resists+prop mod.
Ludus Lucrius
WildCards 22nd
#2 - 2011-10-21 10:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ludus Lucrius
Scimi as well as basilisk should have no problems flying vanguards without AB and fitted with TLs(tracking links) or RSBs(remote sensor booster) depending on fleet composition.

My experience comes mosly from flying armor usualy with 1 "unstable" oneiros (3-5 TL/RSB, cap stable with 3 RR, 2-3 mins with 4 RR and non-active TL/RSB for emergencies) capped with one of the guardians (3 oneiroses are also awsome combo,those setups helped us win many contested NCOs (nation commander outpost)).

But I must say that I haven't flown many OTAs (override transfer array) which seem to be shield specialty :-) as my experience
comes from almost exclusively running NCOs (nation commander outpost) and occasional NMC (nation minning outpost).

Further more I beleive that basis as well as guardians can be fitted to be cap stable with 3 reppers further increasing fleet survivability in odd situations (logi DC and such).

Also 1 "ustable" scimi, 2 basis concept should be applicable to shields as well and it might work almost as good as its armor analogy :-).

Where there's a Will, there's a way
samuel1
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-10-21 10:31:29 UTC
Dek'athor
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-10-21 10:51:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dek'athor
Thx for the link samuel, but I know/visited/red all that guide and saw the fittings. My question ain't answered in there.

Picture this:
A shielf fleet with 9 members, 2 are basilisk pilots already in. the FC wants 1 more logi, a scimi seems like a good choice

In the channel 2 scimi guise with the same experience/skills/etc X up with 2 different fits:


Fit A: 2 tracking links (for instance this1: http://incursions.nexsoft.de/?mode=fit&id=16 ) but no prop mod
Fit B: no tracking links and full tank/prop mod (like this: http://incursions.nexsoft.de/?mode=fit&id=19 )



Which fit is more likely to get the invite, fit A or B ?


Quote:
Scimi as well as basilisk should have no problems flying vanguards without AB and fitted with TLs(tracking links) or RSBs(remote sensor booster) depending on fleet composition.

Hmmm... I could see tracking link scimi/logi being favored for Vanguards, but the other sites could get ...interesting in some situations
Ludus Lucrius
WildCards 22nd
#5 - 2011-10-21 11:13:16 UTC
If I were doing shield VG fleet I would pick one with TLs w/o AB.

Just my 5 cents :-)
Goose99
#6 - 2011-10-21 15:35:55 UTC
Ludus Lucrius wrote:
Scimi as well as basilisk should have no problems flying vanguards without AB and fitted with TLs(tracking links) or RSBs(remote sensor booster) depending on fleet composition.

My experience comes mosly from flying armor usualy with 1 "unstable" oneiros (3-5 TL/RSB, cap stable with 3 RR, 2-3 mins with 4 RR and non-active TL/RSB for emergencies) capped with one of the guardians (3 oneiroses are also awsome combo,those setups helped us win many contested NCOs (nation commander outpost)).

But I must say that I haven't flown many OTAs (override transfer array) which seem to be shield specialty :-) as my experience
comes from almost exclusively running NCOs (nation commander outpost) and occasional NMC (nation minning outpost).

Further more I beleive that basis as well as guardians can be fitted to be cap stable with 3 reppers further increasing fleet survivability in odd situations (logi DC and such).

Also 1 "ustable" scimi, 2 basis concept should be applicable to shields as well and it might work almost as good as its armor analogy :-).

Where there's a Will, there's a way


You don't want that much cap chain dependency for shield in OTAs. It's not the same as running NCOs with legions that takes no dmg from torps there anyway. OTAs on fat shield BS put stress on logi in the first place. With shield buffer amount and volley dmg being what it is, if someone kills a 3rd tama and it jams logi chain, those NMs will go popcorn and tears will fill btl...

FCs wanting tracking links on Scimi has to do with shield fleets having bad tracking. They actually have more of an effect than Onerios links on armor fleets. Not that 2 links make or breaks a fleet.

As for those fits linked, keep in mind they are vanguard only. LSE increase Scimi's base sig by almost 50%. Such a fit will not survive hq sites. Maximize em and heat resists, as lasers will be the only thing hitting you for dmg. Ab helps a lot on rat tracking. Don't use dc. Resist bonus is minute. Scimi has no hull hp, if it's going to pop, it will pop, dc will not change that.
Lugalzagezi666
#7 - 2011-10-21 15:54:20 UTC
Every tracking link or remote sensor booster on logis basically means +1 mid to your pirate bses - and its usually best used for faction web on bonused hull.

Scimi and basi have in fact no issues tanking any vanguard site without ab with only 1x lse + 2x hardeners. Absolute cap stability is greatly overrated to, you usually need full reps only in ota for last wave. And you can kill last deltole with bunch of nightmares/machs under one minute.

As for 2 tracking links and no afterburner - scimi is often delegated ore dropper for nmc, so fc might ask you to fit ab - bring one in cargo.

And which fit its likely to get the invite? It depends. Some fcs will go for fully tanked one, some will go for the one with tracking links.

I personally LOVE remote boosting for vanguards, being able to pop niarjas with nm/mach 3secs after they spawn thanks to 2x remote sebos is nice. But really using remote boosting to its bet effect takes alot of coordination /in ideal situation fc has 5 remote boosts available, but try to make 5 people to change their mids - if you arent flying with them regularly/.
Kesshisan
#8 - 2011-10-22 02:35:13 UTC
[Scimitar, Incursions Logi]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
10MN Analog Booster Rockets

Small S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

[Scimitar, Incursion Logi Track]
Type-D Power Core Modification: Reaction Control
Type-D Power Core Modification: Reaction Control
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Cap Recharger II
Phase Switching I Targeting Nexus
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II

Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


[Scimitar, Dual Links]
Type-D Power Core Modification: Reaction Control
Power Diagnostic System II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Phase Switching I Targeting Nexus
Phase Switching I Targeting Nexus
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II

Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


(Add drones as you see fit.)

Those are the three fits I use for Incursions. I have never lost a ship and I have made billions of isk on incursions. The only time one of my fleets ever lost a ship was when the FC wouldn't listen to the logis. We were low on DPS (we had 11 ships, but no shiny ships) and for about 4 sites in a row we cut it close with the FC trying to blitz them. All 3 logis were saying "Do not blitz, we can't keep up the repping. We are going to lose a ship." On the 5th site we lost a ship, fortunately it was the FC's ship. I left the fleet, and I think the fleet broke up soon thereafter.

These setups work beautifully. The last one is low on EHP, so don't run it if there are only 2 logis. (You get primaried and the other logi gets jammed. You probably won't last. A rare event, but it's possible.) But if you have 3 logis and trust your fleet, you will increase the fleet DPS dramatically with 2x links.
Lord Wickham
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-10-22 22:04:54 UTC
a few things i think will answer your question.

1. tracking links are a must for any vanguard fleet, you dont need AB in VG's unless your designated to run ore to the refinery.
2. AB is useful for negating damage and running stuff to and fro in the sites. Again for VG's you don't need this LSE is enough and 2 others logis will keep you up no problem.

You do however need AB for HQ's 100% assaults are touch and go, but AB means you can be helpful in running the civilians in the site, so i would be inclined to include it in.



also a comment for any logi pilot, if your willing to spend 140mil or so just for the ship, why not go the extra way for faction mods?

republic fleet LSE has a reduced sig radius!!!!
T2 rigs together will only set you back 70-80mil but will make fitting your ship SO much easier.
IF you are gona use tracking mods pls use serpentis or fed navy faction gear.

these 3 specific points will mean you are 99% priority selection to FC's for any fleet


Also 1 bil will get you a set of Halo's which is gona give you a massive reduction in sig radius somewhere around 66 sig radius in a scimi with republic fleet LSE. its alot extra, but the likelyhood of losing your POD is 1% in high sec, and will significantly reduce DPS and loss of ship. i consider it a non discussion investment.
Dek'athor
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-10-25 10:24:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Dek'athor
Lord Wickham wrote:

interesting stuff


I for one have settled on 2 fits:

Fit1, to be used on sites bigger than assaults (thinking HQ's)
*t2 reps
*ab
*no TL

Fit2, to be used on assaults and lower:
*T2 reps
*2x faction tracking links
*no AB

The only difference between the 2 is thee Assault fits lacks AB. Hasn't been a problem till now. Of course, the number of assault fleets I got under the belt hasn't been that high and my experience may be lacking. Both fits have the same EHP of roughly 29k and get up to ~300 m/s without prop mod.
Reasoning is: if I get room aggro on assaults, I'm bound to get 2-3 webs on me and a number of frigate/cruiser enemy guns, AB not making significant difference in damage taken. In HQ's with higher large' sanshas numbers around, AB can make a difference even under webbed conditions so it goes in and TL's go out.


That's the theory anyway, as always, a laziness phase usually hits and I x up with AB fit for everything :/ but ONE OF THESE DAYS! *shakes fist at uncle sansha*