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Organ Donation and forced donor status effective in Venezuela

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Author
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#1 - 2012-11-24 16:20:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Brujo Loco
So , finally, our country , will pass on the 26th of the current month of November 2012, LAW 27 regarding organ donations.

The law makes ALL VENEZUELANS by law, declared clinically dead and of 18 years or older a Donor by Default regardless of donor status beforehand.

This completely soured up my morning.

Not because of organ donations, or the religious side of it or how it is good , or bad, or what not. Simply because it takes away MY CHOICE upon my earthly remains (regardless if I'm dead or not) of what to do with them.

Choice? The freedom of choice? You can leave your earthly possessions to anyone you want, and if you do it correctly, the state or the government can only take a certain cut, in taxes and legal fees. But you can still inherit MATERIAL things to WHOEVER you want.

But not your body now, the Government has made it so. You are now forced upon death to relinquish your organs to ANYONE.

And this is Venezuela folks, where your organs, like the ones from the prison inmates in china will mostly go to the Black Market anyway.

I mean seriously?

Wow ... I'm really pissed off, one thing is to ask nicely, other to FORCE you into it, LEGALLY.

As a sour side note, please proceed to watch how Venezuela, will become in the future, one of the havens for Black Market organ transplants and forced donations. Since opt out measures are signed by paper and rarely enforced. Its a third world country that has electric blackouts, bad or nonexistent internet in some areas, and poor government efficiency.

Looking at this from a certain dark humourless perspective, perhaps if one of you needs an organ, you can probe in Venezuela, there will probably be a lot for sale for foreigners. Just remember, go there pretending to have a Cosmetic Surgery done, find a MD , tease him about this or that and a wad of bills, and VOILA! Freshly Harvested Organ for YOU!

Where it comes from? a Venezuelan Jon Doe in the morgue (hundreds of them in the weekends due to violence) A homeless child (they usually form herds in the poorest neighborhoods) or a prison inmate (jails in Venezuela produce a lot of dead bodies that can now, legally harvest the bodies) or perhaps, a poor sod on the street, that like the tale of the english gravediggers that began "harvesting" bodies for the doctors for money, began killing people when the doctor needed them "fresher"

Anyway, if you need an Organ, remember, Venezuela is now a Wonderful choice, wonder how much a Cornea or Heart will be in the Black Market? its a budding market, prices will lower soon I think with the incoming influx, Grab the chance! Quickly!

If Eve taught me something is to grab market opportunities when they present themselves. You can even make a good profit down there!

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2012-11-24 16:28:20 UTC
Well its not like you need them...
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#3 - 2012-11-24 16:46:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Well its not like you need them...


Thats not the point friend. As I said before, its not about organ donations PER SE.

Its the country, the government and the current socio-economical status of said country. Organ Donation I deem as a completely "neutral" affair to me, dont have any feelings , good or bad , about it.

What I hate, is how it will turn Venezuela into a more downtrodden place. If this were an European Country or a 1st World Country I would be "MEH whatever, I will opt out, or try to donate certain parts , or whatever".

Not here, in this dark savage land of madness that is Latinamerica, it opens the doors for so much pain and literally hell on earth. For ease of reference, Imagine legalized , government sponsored organ harvesting in Burundi or Somalia, now instead of black people imagine a mix of healthy white to brown and black shades of people, like that moment in A time to Kill ... and you will understand what Im trying to get at.

Anyway, no matter what I write, no one from the civilized world will understand.

We are just the Africa of Latinamerica.

And everything will pass, and time will go on , until the last cycle of the Sun.

And all we will be is just a single tear lost in the midst of the endless void we call the universe.

No one will mourn us , for there will be no one to remember us.

And like a tiny speck of light that one day fades out in the sky, so too our song will be lost in the echoes of eternity.

My scream will go into the utter blackness, swallowed whole by the sheer immensity of the uncaring universe that spawned us.

My only cry of agony, unheard, except by the alien gods that dwell in the edge , to be devoured as a whale devours krill.

Bah!

/rant out

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco

Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#4 - 2012-11-24 17:16:09 UTC
Brujo Loco wrote:
Not here, in this dark savage land of madness that is Latinamerica, it opens the doors for so much pain and literally hell on earth.


That's actually part of the plot to Max Payne 3. Seems prophetic now.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Fish Alabel
A Big Enough Lever
#5 - 2012-11-24 18:55:59 UTC
Brujo Loco wrote:
So , finally, our country , will pass on the 26th of the current month of November 2012, LAW 27 regarding organ donations.

The law makes ALL VENEZUELANS by law, declared clinically dead and of 18 years or older a Donor by Default regardless of donor status beforehand.

This completely soured up my morning.

Not because of organ donations, or the religious side of it or how it is good , or bad, or what not. Simply because it takes away MY CHOICE upon my earthly remains (regardless if I'm dead or not) of what to do with them.

Choice? The freedom of choice? You can leave your earthly possessions to anyone you want, and if you do it correctly, the state or the government can only take a certain cut, in taxes and legal fees. But you can still inherit MATERIAL things to WHOEVER you want.

But not your body now, the Government has made it so. You are now forced upon death to relinquish your organs to ANYONE.

And this is Venezuela folks, where your organs, like the ones from the prison inmates in china will mostly go to the Black Market anyway.

I mean seriously?

Wow ... I'm really pissed off, one thing is to ask nicely, other to FORCE you into it, LEGALLY.

As a sour side note, please proceed to watch how Venezuela, will become in the future, one of the havens for Black Market organ transplants and forced donations. Since opt out measures are signed by paper and rarely enforced. Its a third world country that has electric blackouts, bad or nonexistent internet in some areas, and poor government efficiency.

Looking at this from a certain dark humourless perspective, perhaps if one of you needs an organ, you can probe in Venezuela, there will probably be a lot for sale for foreigners. Just remember, go there pretending to have a Cosmetic Surgery done, find a MD , tease him about this or that and a wad of bills, and VOILA! Freshly Harvested Organ for YOU!

Where it comes from? a Venezuelan Jon Doe in the morgue (hundreds of them in the weekends due to violence) A homeless child (they usually form herds in the poorest neighborhoods) or a prison inmate (jails in Venezuela produce a lot of dead bodies that can now, legally harvest the bodies) or perhaps, a poor sod on the street, that like the tale of the english gravediggers that began "harvesting" bodies for the doctors for money, began killing people when the doctor needed them "fresher"

Anyway, if you need an Organ, remember, Venezuela is now a Wonderful choice, wonder how much a Cornea or Heart will be in the Black Market? its a budding market, prices will lower soon I think with the incoming influx, Grab the chance! Quickly!

If Eve taught me something is to grab market opportunities when they present themselves. You can even make a good profit down there!



am i DOING it right?

Borascus
#6 - 2012-11-24 19:37:33 UTC
Expecting the mortality rate for 18-34 year olds to go up any?

I know its a sick subject but I'm guessing the "one's natural death -> another's better life" overtone of the law is not the only expected outcome
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-11-24 19:40:38 UTC
In China if you have money and need an organ they'll go out and get you one Big smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

P'anChin Lien
Crepitus Ventris
#8 - 2012-11-24 19:51:51 UTC
Brujo Loco wrote:
So , finally, our country , will pass on the 26th of the current month of November 2012, LAW 27 regarding organ donations.

The law makes ALL VENEZUELANS by law, declared clinically dead and of 18 years or older a Donor by Default regardless of donor status beforehand.

This completely soured up my morning.

Not because of organ donations, or the religious side of it or how it is good , or bad, or what not. Simply because it takes away MY CHOICE upon my earthly remains (regardless if I'm dead or not) of what to do with them.

Choice? The freedom of choice? You can leave your earthly possessions to anyone you want, and if you do it correctly, the state or the government can only take a certain cut, in taxes and legal fees. But you can still inherit MATERIAL things to WHOEVER you want.

But not your body now, the Government has made it so. You are now forced upon death to relinquish your organs to ANYONE.

And this is Venezuela folks, where your organs, like the ones from the prison inmates in china will mostly go to the Black Market anyway.

I mean seriously?

Wow ... I'm really pissed off, one thing is to ask nicely, other to FORCE you into it, LEGALLY.

As a sour side note, please proceed to watch how Venezuela, will become in the future, one of the havens for Black Market organ transplants and forced donations. Since opt out measures are signed by paper and rarely enforced. Its a third world country that has electric blackouts, bad or nonexistent internet in some areas, and poor government efficiency.

Looking at this from a certain dark humourless perspective, perhaps if one of you needs an organ, you can probe in Venezuela, there will probably be a lot for sale for foreigners. Just remember, go there pretending to have a Cosmetic Surgery done, find a MD , tease him about this or that and a wad of bills, and VOILA! Freshly Harvested Organ for YOU!

Where it comes from? a Venezuelan Jon Doe in the morgue (hundreds of them in the weekends due to violence) A homeless child (they usually form herds in the poorest neighborhoods) or a prison inmate (jails in Venezuela produce a lot of dead bodies that can now, legally harvest the bodies) or perhaps, a poor sod on the street, that like the tale of the english gravediggers that began "harvesting" bodies for the doctors for money, began killing people when the doctor needed them "fresher"

Anyway, if you need an Organ, remember, Venezuela is now a Wonderful choice, wonder how much a Cornea or Heart will be in the Black Market? its a budding market, prices will lower soon I think with the incoming influx, Grab the chance! Quickly!

If Eve taught me something is to grab market opportunities when they present themselves. You can even make a good profit down there!



Damn it's on the tip of my tongue but chavez is a soccylist..hmmm leach...fat...incredibly rich off the backs
of the people he is oppressing......oh wait that's it a socialist/communist.

I guess quite literally flash cremations will have to be the order of the day. Can't be having your communist leaders
harvesting the people so they can stay in power longer.

After all term limit is not a concept chavez is familiar with and he might need spare parts at some point.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2012-11-24 23:41:42 UTC
P'anChin Lien wrote:



Damn it's on the tip of my tongue but chavez is a soccylist..hmmm leach...fat...incredibly rich off the backs
of the people he is oppressing......oh wait that's it a socialist/communist.

I guess quite literally flash cremations will have to be the order of the day. Can't be having your communist leaders
harvesting the people so they can stay in power longer.

After all term limit is not a concept chavez is familiar with and he might need spare parts at some point.


He isnt a communist. Just mad.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#10 - 2012-11-25 00:44:15 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
In China if you have money and need an organ they'll go out and get you one Big smile


They use their prison population for just that purpose.

Used to execute people left and right, but now just put them on ice in case they need something.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-11-25 01:25:35 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
In China if you have money and need an organ they'll go out and get you one Big smile


They use their prison population for just that purpose.

Used to execute people left and right, but now just put them on ice in case they need something.


And they're still overpopulated Shocked

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Miss Piggy
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-11-25 01:37:21 UTC
Brujo Loco wrote:
So , finally, our country , will pass on the 26th of the current month of November 2012, LAW 27 regarding organ donations.

The law makes ALL VENEZUELANS by law, declared clinically dead and of 18 years or older a Donor by Default regardless of donor status beforehand.

This completely soured up my morning.

Not because of organ donations, or the religious side of it or how it is good , or bad, or what not. Simply because it takes away MY CHOICE upon my earthly remains (regardless if I'm dead or not) of what to do with them.

Choice? The freedom of choice? You can leave your earthly possessions to anyone you want, and if you do it correctly, the state or the government can only take a certain cut, in taxes and legal fees. But you can still inherit MATERIAL things to WHOEVER you want.

But not your body now, the Government has made it so. You are now forced upon death to relinquish your organs to ANYONE.

And this is Venezuela folks, where your organs, like the ones from the prison inmates in china will mostly go to the Black Market anyway.

I mean seriously?

Wow ... I'm really pissed off, one thing is to ask nicely, other to FORCE you into it, LEGALLY.

As a sour side note, please proceed to watch how Venezuela, will become in the future, one of the havens for Black Market organ transplants and forced donations. Since opt out measures are signed by paper and rarely enforced. Its a third world country that has electric blackouts, bad or nonexistent internet in some areas, and poor government efficiency.

Looking at this from a certain dark humourless perspective, perhaps if one of you needs an organ, you can probe in Venezuela, there will probably be a lot for sale for foreigners. Just remember, go there pretending to have a Cosmetic Surgery done, find a MD , tease him about this or that and a wad of bills, and VOILA! Freshly Harvested Organ for YOU!

Where it comes from? a Venezuelan Jon Doe in the morgue (hundreds of them in the weekends due to violence) A homeless child (they usually form herds in the poorest neighborhoods) or a prison inmate (jails in Venezuela produce a lot of dead bodies that can now, legally harvest the bodies) or perhaps, a poor sod on the street, that like the tale of the english gravediggers that began "harvesting" bodies for the doctors for money, began killing people when the doctor needed them "fresher"

Anyway, if you need an Organ, remember, Venezuela is now a Wonderful choice, wonder how much a Cornea or Heart will be in the Black Market? its a budding market, prices will lower soon I think with the incoming influx, Grab the chance! Quickly!

If Eve taught me something is to grab market opportunities when they present themselves. You can even make a good profit down there!



Quote:
Its a third world country that has electric blackouts, bad or nonexistent internet in some areas, and poor government efficiency.


Strange common denominator in countries with socialist/communist governments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_Venezuela

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#13 - 2012-11-25 07:34:08 UTC
I know where I will be retiring too, after smoking so much in life.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#14 - 2012-11-25 10:45:04 UTC
Better system would be to be able to opt out but that would also prohibit you from receiving donor organs EVER. Oh, and you must decide at 18.
Freeloaders refusing donating and receiving transplants is a pet peeve of mine.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-11-25 15:19:10 UTC
Foreign countries are weird Lol

http://www.examiner.com/article/man-sues-wife-claims-ugly-baby-born-horrifies-him-1

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#16 - 2012-11-25 15:39:42 UTC
I agree with most things you say usually, but on this one I think it makes perfect sense. Until we perfect stem cell manipulation we are stuck with old fashioned transplants. I'm not sure what the waiting lists are like in latin America, but a friend of mine who is on the waiting list for a pancreas might be waiting decades for it. In the mean time he has to make do with insulin.

I agree that their should be an opt out, but that people should be automatically enrolled in these programs and asked if they want to opt out. If I remember right that's what is done in the Netherlands.

As long as Chavez doesn't go beyond the pale and start marketing abroad for people to come to Venezuela for cheap organs tp boost the state coffers, there doesn't seem to be much objectionable beyond the idea that your internal organs have value at your funeral or after you are dead. In many respects, something of you is still alive and literally sitting between someone else and their own deathbed.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#17 - 2012-11-25 17:04:40 UTC
It's not like one could possibly still have any uses for any of their organs after they're dead, so the only option that's being taken away is the needlessly selfish choice of not donating them.

Now, I would just about agree that one should be able to pick who their organs go to preferentially in case several compatible receivers are available (with a pre-death list of priorities), but that's about it.
Think of your organs as any other private property, and you choose who they go to.

Now, imagine how ludicrous would it sound if your last will and testament stipulated that ALL your possessions should be incinerated, torn down or otherwise destroyed as soon as you're declared dead, just so nobody else can have them.
Can you please explain to me how that's any different ? Or, better still, do you want to say you would actually support that option ?
Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-11-25 21:09:41 UTC
Eh, its all pointless anyways. Not that long until you can 3D print an organ based on need.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-11-25 21:27:53 UTC
Akita T wrote:
It's not like one could possibly still have any uses for any of their organs after they're dead, so the only option that's being taken away is the needlessly selfish choice of not donating them.

Now, I would just about agree that one should be able to pick who their organs go to preferentially in case several compatible receivers are available (with a pre-death list of priorities), but that's about it.
Think of your organs as any other private property, and you choose who they go to.

Now, imagine how ludicrous would it sound if your last will and testament stipulated that ALL your possessions should be incinerated, torn down or otherwise destroyed as soon as you're declared dead, just so nobody else can have them.
Can you please explain to me how that's any different ? Or, better still, do you want to say you would actually support that option ?


Naturally it's different because people can't just think of bodyparts as property and actually find such comparisons deeply insulting. Being able to decide what is done to your own body is one of the most sacred things to many people. People in general also don't stop having feelings towards a body just because it has stopped living. Soldiers refuse to leave dead bodies to enemy hands, dead people are shown great respect, often more then when they were living, and I'm sure if I make a google search I'll find plenty of cases where spouses continued living together with their dead companion. One of the best ways to to create hate is to desecrate the remains of the dead and cutting them up and distributing the pieces is easy to see deeply disrespectful. Do that against their will and it's disgusting to many.

I think the objections are largely because of emotional connections and the fact, that it's incredibly dangeous to start thinking about humans and their parts as property to be owned. The fact that outside factions are now coming to tell you're a resource to be used and they're going to decide what happens to you is just adding insult to injury and is very vulnerable to explotation and abuse of the worst kind.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#20 - 2012-11-25 22:02:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
While you were alive you could have saved dozens of lives if you had just helped pay for dirt cheap malaria and leprosy drugs that children frequently die from not having access to. It's literally just a couple dollars to save one of their lives, but hardly anyone can be bothered.

So i'm a little skeptical of anyone who says organ donation makes someone a saint, after they spend their entire lives not saving the lives of others when it's so easy to. If they don't care about what happens to their body after death, then there is no sacrifice made at all with organ donation.

To be clear, i appreciate people who donate organs, but lets not trash those who choose not to, because it's really one of the more minor ways you can use your life to help others, and not the deciding factor of whether or not someone cares about saving lives.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

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