Wormholes

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waaaa

I don't even understand?

Not enough ISK in WH's?

I prefer the option of we teach more people and get more people to come in so i can aim my blasters at them...

1/10

First off, there are 2 components to that juicy sleeper loot. The MNR's are pretty much the only salvage worth anything. And there is the actual blue loot, which is bought by NPC's. So the Blue loot is static, and can't be devalued by farming.

MNR's on the other hand have always fluctuated. But you have done nothing to show that their price dropping has anything to do with the supply side of the equation.

I'd contend that the recent drop in MNR values has as much to do with all of the upcoming nerf's to the favorite T3 in the game. First you have devs saying T3's need to be put down like a rabid dog. And you have the upcoming nerf to Heavy Missiles.

I'd bet more than anything this has more to do with the MNR values right now than anything else. We all know for the higher level WH's the primary loot value comes from the blue loot anyhow, which again, cannot be devalued since they are NPC buy orders.

I'd also suspect that with 0.0 Tengu fleet doctrines, they blow up more T3's than get killed in WH battles anyhow. I'm no expert in 0.0 but as their fleet doctrines change, their need for Tengu's changes as well.

Long story short, there are plenty of reasons for fluctuation in MNR prices. But over farming is only one piece of the equation.

Yes I've seen the chart, but that still is only a partial tale. The yearly chart only goes back to Jan1. And the price is in big decline because there was a huge spike in Feb. If you were to go back 2 years the overal average would look much flatter.

Also, if you look at historical data other than just price, it tells an interesting tale. For example, for the last 90 days, on average there have been more buy orders than sell orders. This would not support a theory of dropping prices due to oversupply.

Either way, none of this supports your assertation that all of this is due to an influx of WH bears.

I will throw a different thought into the mix. I will use me as an example. I run a small corp, and we are 100% WH based. We are looking to grow, now that we have a WH that would support a larger corp. But as of right now, being small can be difficult. We are not opposed to a good fight, but often we will run into one of the larger entities and be easily outnumbered by a large margin. So while I like a good fight, I'm not generally interested in throwing my ship into a fire.

Now some might say I should just join one of the bigger alliances or corps. I see that as backwards though. Joining them would effectively reduce the potential number of targets, as whole groups of corps would suddenly become blue. What you really need is to see small corps like ours grow into a nice small/mid sized corp. One that can field a decent fleet for a fight, while not being so large as to scare off potential targets.

lol...
speaking as one of the people who does give out free information to almost anyone, you sound like a MASSIVE carebear wit your 'omg protect my income!' speach.

yeah, nano prices are bottoming out. so?
about 80-90%% of wh income is locked in NPC priced blue books so even if all of the salvage was completely worthless, it wouldnt affect income almost at all.

giving out free info means more people come to WHs.
yes, a lot of them will be carebear farmers but not all.
and hell, even if all of them were carebears, more people in WHs still = more targets.

yes, WHs provide massive income to people who know how to take it.
no, this isnt going to change if the WH population, say, doubles.



this is such utter garbage...
i did a quick check and the loot i have sitting in my loot hanger right now amounts to 1.5bil, of which 1.3bil is blue books which effectively are bounties.

PS: nano prices are largely flooring cos of the HML changes.
for the record, when i started playing WHs 3 yeahs ago, nanos were at the same price as they are now so consider it a cycle *shrug*

Except he's right. The only difference is that they are bounties you have to loot and then haul to high sec to sell.

Altight, before I get started I will point out one frustration that I generally have with these sorts of threads. In your OP, you took up 3 posts. You obviously had plenty to say, and I assume, want others to read and comprehend.

Then you like to gloss over or misunderstand replies people post, which is quite frankly rude. You write a novella and cant be bothered to actually read and understand what others reply to. Anyhow, on to the fun.



As you may have missed, but others pointed out, your conclusions are flawed. Blue loot are NPC price controlled, and the data on MNR's does not support an oversupply condition.



Maybe in many cases it is a situation of a large force sieging a small corp that really has no way of winning at all. There are plenty of corps who like a good fight. But say you bring 30-40 pilots to siege a POS of a 20 man corp, do you really expect a good fight out of that in any situation? Most people, even PVP types, aren't really interested in just feeding someone free kills.




As has been pointed out, blue loot is functionally equivalent to bounties. It just isn't automatic. but in terms of prices it is the same, as blue loot buy orders are NPC based (unless you are dumb enough to sell them in Jita).



This coming from the guy in the 232 man WH corp (which is pretty ******* huge for a WH corp). Besides, you completely missed the point of what I was saying in the first place. And no, I don't really care enough to try and explain it a different way.



Probably not. For one, I don't think the amount of isk is the issue (anyone in a WH who isn't space rich is doing it wrong) and I don't see a button that would change anything magically for PVP.

SSC are just crybaby blobbing carebear whingers. There, I said it.

There is another reason MNR prices went down - the Incursion nerf. Pre-Incursion, everyone was piling into derpy blubber buffer Tengu's and sucking up every CN BCU, pimp shield module, RF TP and Scourge Heavy Missile they could get their greedy whiny carebear paws on. Then the great farm in the sky went all dodo, and everyone drifted off, and discovered they could make more money in an Incursus in Faction Warfare. Melted nanoribbon prices followed this demand in Tengus, Lokis down. Similarly, faction prices have come off a bit (also thanks to a freely traded market). Do you want us to all band together and stop people running Sansha missions in 0.0 so that Succubus BPC prices go up? Dinkus.

We will likely see Tech 3 cruiser prices wobble a bit more. T1 logistic cruisers are going to make a huge impact on the way things roll, at least Armour side. This means, with the inbound HML aka Tengu nerf, and buff to cheap derpable armour logi, people's doctrines will adjust and the prices will move.

Which will mean in 3 months you'll be back here clamouring for people to bring back farmable FW plexes because the supply of datacores evaporated.

TBH you make it sound like the OP is the corps opinion and not one guys opinion, an opinion that i disagree with as i posted above so the above people should be able to differentiate between one persons opinion and a whole corps opinion.

MNR prices are down simply because less people are using them in fleet doctrines in null and less are getting whelped it is that simple.

You link those KM's without knowing anything at all. The ships we killed in the first KM were a smaller part of what they had, we committed a small fleet initially to get them to engage and send in more of their ships to fight. They didn't commit more ships (They were probably not back to full numbers as this was same time as the Insideous OP so can understand that) and some of them got away and we sent in the rest of the fleet to clean things up.

Should the others stay back and not get to KM whore because it doesn't look fair? It is not like the fleet they had roaming around were mere explorers looking for rainbows and lollipops.

The second KM, you should take note of caps involved and WH mass limitations and realise they were not just ganks but well planned ganks.

But i guess it's bad if we see a few ships roaming around in "lawless" space and we all want to get in on the fun?