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Nos Mechanics
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Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-11-24 15:13:28 UTC
The tool tip shows that a nos will not drain a targets cap below the level of your own. This does not mean you no longer feed your own cap does it? Also, why do so many people think Nos's need reworked?
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#2 - 2012-11-24 15:26:29 UTC
If your cap is at 45% and your enemy has their cap at 44% you will not do anything by activating a nos on them.

Since neuts generally outdo nos in almost every situation they can seem a bit underpowered... And even if you nos someone they can neut away most of your cap.
Shaishi Otichoda
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-11-24 17:26:51 UTC
I think there is general misunderstanding that NOS would be used to neut the target while that's not the intended use. NOS is there to keep yourself from running out of cap. Neut is there to cap out the target. NOS is only good if your target doesn't cap out but you are at risk of capping out. Neut is only good if you don't cap out.

As always there are more shades of gray but that's the basic idea.
Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-11-24 17:32:12 UTC
Kosetzu wrote:
If your cap is at 45% and your enemy has their cap at 44% you will not do anything by activating a nos on them.

Since neuts generally outdo nos in almost every situation they can seem a bit underpowered... And even if you nos someone they can neut away most of your cap.


As in not only will I stop draining their cap, I will stop filling mine? Just making sure because as I understand it a lot of mechanics in this game are not always as you would assume they would be. Cap transfers as an example.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#5 - 2012-11-24 17:58:56 UTC
What's the thing with Cap Transfers?


And if your cap is higher (in percent) than your target's cap, then the module activation of a NOS will do *nothing*. It won't drain cap, it won't fuel your capacitor. It's there for funny things like... cycle it right before your tackle mods, so even under neut pressure it's very unlikely that you will lose your point.
Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-11-24 18:17:25 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
What's the thing with Cap Transfers?




Two ships can cap transfer each other and replenish both of their caps, essentially making energy from nothing. The tool tip won't tell u that. I just wondered if a nos would continue to fuel your cap even after it stopped draining theirs or if it did "exactly what it says on the box".
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#7 - 2012-11-24 18:25:20 UTC
Well, when you check the attributes of an Energy Transfer, it exactly says that it will generate cap out of nothing.


http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Small_Nosferatu_II


'Drains energy from the target ship and adds it to your own.'

Drains? Adds cap!

Note: a Nosferatu module will not drain your target's capacitor below your own capacitor percentage level.

Doesn't drain anymore? Won't add cap that it didn't drain!
Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-11-24 18:45:53 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Well, when you check the attributes of an Energy Transfer, it exactly says that it will generate cap out of nothing.




Huh? Where do u get that from?
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#9 - 2012-11-24 18:59:23 UTC
Koujjo Dian wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Well, when you check the attributes of an Energy Transfer, it exactly says that it will generate cap out of nothing.




Huh? Where do u get that from?

Because the activaction cost is lower than what you transfer. Higher skills reduces requirement for activation by 5% per level (some ships have bonuses to this as well).
Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-11-24 19:06:53 UTC
Kosetzu wrote:
Koujjo Dian wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Well, when you check the attributes of an Energy Transfer, it exactly says that it will generate cap out of nothing.




Huh? Where do u get that from?

Because the activaction cost is lower than what you transfer. Higher skills reduces requirement for activation by 5% per level (some ships have bonuses to this as well).


Ya I figured that out . Just trying to figure out where he read that in the tool tip.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#11 - 2012-11-24 20:33:03 UTC
Koujjo Dian wrote:
Kosetzu wrote:
Koujjo Dian wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Well, when you check the attributes of an Energy Transfer, it exactly says that it will generate cap out of nothing.




Huh? Where do u get that from?

Because the activaction cost is lower than what you transfer. Higher skills reduces requirement for activation by 5% per level (some ships have bonuses to this as well).


Ya I figured that out . Just trying to figure out where he read that in the tool tip.

Tooltips doesn't take skills into account.

When you just take show info on an unfitted module it won't show what your skills does to it. So you need to add the 5%xlvl of skill to the factoring of the modules output.

So for example, T2 Large Energy Transfer:
Tooltip shows activation cost 366 GJ
Transfer amount 351 GJ

With energy emission 5 that means 274,5 GJ activation cost, while the transfer amount remains the same. Therefore you send 76,5 GJ more than you used to activate it, generating cap out of nowhere.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#12 - 2012-11-24 20:34:00 UTC
Koujjo Dian wrote:
Huh? Where do u get that from?


The first law of thermodynamics, among other things, is not part of EVE physics.
Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-11-24 20:37:01 UTC
It does exactly what it says, got it.
ilammy
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-11-24 20:44:40 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:
The first law of thermodynamics, among other things, is not part of EVE physics.
Well, the capacitor energy the modules use is not the entire energy produced by a ship. So there are no thermodynamical paradoxes: energy transfers are mere conduits between ships' generators, capacitor energy is used to open the gate and the transferred energy is taken from the innards. The generator is definitely more powerful that the capacitor for the capacitor is only leftovers of the energy that are not needed right now for the ship operation.