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Working on tactics to nullify suicide ganking in high sec

Author
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-11-24 18:30:46 UTC
Marvin Narville wrote:
At any rate, the OP is a thinly veiled attempt to have CCP change the system. Why you ask, well here's why:

1.The suggestions in this thread are well known, borderline common knowledge.
2. The OP isn't popping his forum cherry right now, he's seen all this before.
3. This is his third thread on the same topic, the other two have been locked, recently.
4. He was precise in his wording, he wants to "nullify" hi sec freighter ganking, not "mitigate", not "reduce", not "make less frequent or more difficult or more expensive", he simply wants to nullify freighter ganking. (see definition below before you try to further mince words)

(nullify [ˈnʌlɪˌfaɪ]
vb -fies, -fying, -fied (tr)
1. (Law) to render legally void or of no effect
2. to render ineffective or useless; cancel out)

5. In order to make ganking ineffective, useless, or cancel it out...in otherwords to nullify it, you WOULD in fact have to change gameplay mechanics, as currently ganking is "possible" by definition.

TL;DR Yes, yes the OP is in fact "looking to CCP to change the system"

This sounds almost exactly like a recent discussion that took place over mining barges.

Do you think CCP will make the same assumption, that freighter pilots are too stupid to fly their ships without help?

CCP has no sense of humour.

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#62 - 2012-11-24 18:31:04 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Riddick Liddell wrote:

- no skill or implant will help. If they catch you, it's all over.


So doubling your EHP won't help when the way gankers work it to do almost exactly enough damage to kill you to minimize their losses?

HOW DID THEY STEAL THE DEATHRAY FROM CONCORD?!?!?!?!?!

Pirate

Resistance is futile....

At least that's what the Gankers want you to think.

I'm not a ganker, but I do side with them in this argument. Part of EVE is that you cannot stop learning, the day you get complacent, you get blown up.

I was talking to a corpy today about something like this. He had just fallen for the margin trading scam, and was cussing himself for not seeing how obvious a scam it was, but he was playing while he was tired and not paying proper attention, just saw a large profit to be made.

EVE is a game of awareness, intelligence, and ruthlessness. If you lack any one of these traits, you will not excel here(I say this as someone who like to get drunk and fly around in expensive ships cause its funny to lose a billion isk to a drunken escapade)

I think CCP themselves said it best.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-11-24 18:33:10 UTC
Riddick Liddell wrote:
CCP know using autopilot isn't what it used to be. They do nothing.

Probably because autopilot hasn't changed one bit.

CCP has no sense of humour.

kes88
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-11-24 18:38:20 UTC
Thank you for that. I was not aware that the OP was anything other than a noob who wanted some advice.

Firstly, I feel that almost (euphemism) every single thread started in GD with a view to getting help is utterly flamed, no matter the experience of the individual who started it. You all talk about EVE taking your cookie and laughing at you. Very well, but it would be nice if those asking for assistance were given some. Maybe let's take their cookie and pat them on the head for thinking they could have a cookie? That's all.

Secondly, yes, the OP needs to do some googling and research etc, but one would rather expect the EVE forums to be a good place to ask for ideas.

Thirdly, I rather read the OP's post as being 'how can I reduce the threat of being ganked' rather than 'nullify'. Men have a way of being overdramatic in their use of vocab. But then ASS-U-ME & etc. But thank you for the provision of a definition.

I am afraid that this thread and its responses rather saw the blunt end of my indignance as I am somewhat fed up of GD threads being the same old 'What if/How do I/What do I need to do if....' and 'STFU Carebear/Null-seccers suck/Hi-seccers suck/if you don't know what to do then you should BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN.'
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#65 - 2012-11-24 18:39:58 UTC
kes88 wrote:
Thank you for that. I was not aware that the OP was anything other than a noob who wanted some advice.

Firstly, I feel that almost (euphemism) every single thread started in GD with a view to getting help is utterly flamed, no matter the experience of the individual who started it. You all talk about EVE taking your cookie and laughing at you. Very well, but it would be nice if those asking for assistance were given some. Maybe let's take their cookie and pat them on the head for thinking they could have a cookie? That's all.

Secondly, yes, the OP needs to do some googling and research etc, but one would rather expect the EVE forums to be a good place to ask for ideas.

Thirdly, I rather read the OP's post as being 'how can I reduce the threat of being ganked' rather than 'nullify'. Men have a way of being overdramatic in their use of vocab. But then ASS-U-ME & etc. But thank you for the provision of a definition.

I am afraid that this thread and its responses rather saw the blunt end of my indignance as I am somewhat fed up of GD threads being the same old 'What if/How do I/What do I need to do if....' and 'STFU Carebear/Null-seccers suck/Hi-seccers suck/if you don't know what to do then you should BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN.'

Protip: Almost every flame contains some advice on how not to be stupid, you just have to get over your hurt feelings and actually read them.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#66 - 2012-11-24 18:40:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mistah Ewedynao
I don't side with the gankers, nor do I side with fools who fly around with 50 plex's in cargo.

I do think that people need to learn how to play and all this, and "the borderline common knowledge" being given here, is part of that.

I don't really care if the OP's, or some of the posters here, have "hidden agendas". I just like seeing constructive suggestions on how to avoid getting ganked.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.

kes88
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-11-24 18:47:05 UTC
Agreed. When advice is given.

It's the indviduals who basically say 'Well, clearly EVE isn't the game for you' that I take issue with. If those posters are asking, they haven't given up. If they are asking for CCP to change something, then they like the game, but they like it their way. If CCP don't think it needs changing, then agreed, it's probably not the game for them, but I do resent the level of intolerance of EVE players who ask questions. That's all.

Still don't get why those suggestions need to be responded to with 'You should be doing X you stupid ****' and not 'have you tried blinking it out?'
Marvin Narville
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-11-24 18:48:51 UTC
kes88 wrote:


Thirdly, I rather read the OP's post as being 'how can I reduce the threat of being ganked' rather than 'nullify'. Men have a way of being overdramatic in their use of vocab. But then ASS-U-ME & etc. But thank you for the provision of a definition.


Nothing overly dramatic about it, and i'm not assuming, or suggesting its open to interpretation. Read the title of the thread.
EglantinFinfleur
Ecpyrosis
#69 - 2012-11-24 18:50:17 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Then you'll be happy to know that those incursion runners don't give two ***** about freighter ganking, and considering their purpose in this game, they'd laugh themselves to tears when you propose that they spend their time providing logistics to gank targets for free instead of pulling 150 million/hour from their normal activities.


I never said that Incursion runners would be the ones to do it.
I am talking about that level of co-ordination.

Whether there are people willing to do this, that is indeed the question.


I'd be interested. Countergriefing gankbears is always good fun.
kes88
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-11-24 18:51:12 UTC
MEN
Marvin Narville
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-11-24 18:57:20 UTC
kes88 wrote:
MEN


I'm a man, and consider your accusations to be mildly sexist. Beyond that, you suggested that you "interpreted" the OP to mean mitigate, as opposed to nullify. He bluntly uses the word nullify in the thread title. So, I am not "assuming" anything, simply pointing out "specifically" what he "said".
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#72 - 2012-11-24 18:58:34 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
I don't side with the gankers, nor do I side with fools who fly around with 50 plex's in cargo.

You have to choose. General Discussion Online is full of hard and meaningful choices, like do you go with the 30billion isk freighter or the 10 taloses ....

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

kes88
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-11-24 19:02:16 UTC  |  Edited by: kes88
Marvin Narville wrote:
kes88 wrote:
MEN


I'm a man, and consider your accusations to be mildly sexist. Beyond that, you suggested that you "interpreted" the OP to mean mitigate, as opposed to nullify. He bluntly uses the word nullify in the thread title. So, I am not "assuming" anything, simply pointing out "specifically" what he "said".


I'm sorry for that.

However, I consider that to be a somewhat specious argument. Nothing in EVE can be 'nullified' therefore I interpreted the OP to mean mitigate.

EDIT: When I made the ASS-U-ME reference I was talking about myself. Sorry I didn't make that clear.
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#74 - 2012-11-24 19:08:22 UTC
Here's a good link to the evelopedia

Avoiding cargo scans

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#75 - 2012-11-24 19:29:23 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You know you can also roll fat freighters with a T3 boosting alt, which would raise EHP to such a significant degree that it might break most gank attempts, right?

Can anyone open EFT and compare frighter EHP, at full level 5 skills, with and without the following: 5% shield/armor/hull hardwirings, a fully-skilled, mindlinked Legion booster with the armor resist link and the shield resist link, and maybe a slave set? If no one does it, I'll do it by hand, but I'm a bit busy atm.



OMFG EFFORT, not only do you want people to think about what they are doing and use mroe than one char autopiloting, you want them to have to use EFT too? What if their PLAY STYLE doens't involve effort??? This is whats wrong with EVE, people like YOU advocating effort and personal responsibilty for your choices instead of CCP fixing the game with pvp flags!

(Did I explode any sarcasm meters here? If not, someone EFT it for me so i can do enough forum DPS to explode sarcasm meters, or at least put them in reinforced)

Pirate
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#76 - 2012-11-24 19:37:33 UTC
Mr Pragmatic wrote:
Faulting a freighter for carrying to much is like faulting someone who is carrying a briefcase full of money in an area with tons of police ready at any moment.

Cops should be able to insta pod a gankers head.


As someone who IRL works in the field you metioned, the guy walking around with that kind of cash even in the middle of a police station is basically a fool. IRL as in EVE, we provide CONSEQUENCES, not protection (you want "protection", carry a gun or hire private security).

The mindset you display isn't just a game thing. a few years ago where I'm from we instituted an awareness program to help people help us curb vehicle burglary problems.

The result, most people listend and the burglary rates went down, but a vocal minority screamed "you're just blaming the victims" and "police should protect our property even when we're stupid enough to leave expensive lap tops and such in plain view" (paraphrasing that 2nd one lol). In EVE, as in real life, some people would rather stick to a utopian view than conform to actual reality.
Marvin Narville
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2012-11-24 21:07:11 UTC
Some Rando wrote:

This sounds almost exactly like a recent discussion that took place over mining barges.

Do you think CCP will make the same assumption, that freighter pilots are too stupid to fly their ships without help?


If precedent is any indication, yes.

-- Please refer to my thoughts on implementing a reward system for the ship spinning mini game, in which I advocate increased rewards for spinning your ship in station. 100 LP per spin, and a small chance of officer drops with each spin. Also, implementation of some named officer modules which increase the speed your ship spins at, while also doing it for you while you are afk.

(This is of course prone to griefing and nerfing should CCP finish incarna in which case we might see a proliferation of station-ship-spinner-bumping of some sort, kicking off a whole new round of complaints, thereby revitalizing the increasingly stale GD forum.)
Oopsy Bear
Doomheim
#78 - 2012-11-24 21:46:14 UTC
The advice in this thread is mostly good. However, the advice about avoiding systems where freighter ganking is happening is impossible. Add Uedama and Niarja to your avoidance list and make a route going anywhere. See the problem?
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#79 - 2012-11-24 21:47:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Marvin Narville wrote:
3. Not cramming your freighter to the brim with PLEX/Officer mods in the first place


Has anyone realized that you don't actually need to use a freighter to haul plex?

I mean the key reason to stupidity here is that you can purchase and redeem plex on any character on any account.

Said account can have a character in Jita for the said purpose of redeeming accounts.

Secondly you can redeem a plex from anywhere and it doesn't just have to be the station you are in. Selling a Plex in region is just as redeemable as anywhere else without having to be in that station. As long as players can see it its worth purchasing and redeeming. If they want to resell it then there is no good reason to move it since whoever does want to use the plex can do so from anywhere.

There is no good reason to ever undock with plex in your cargo hold. PERIOD.

Yet people seem to do it on a regular basis according to kill mails.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Wurmhel Wunderkind
Meerkat Embrace
#80 - 2012-11-24 21:50:36 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Marvin Narville wrote:
3. Not cramming your freighter to the brim with PLEX/Officer mods in the first place


Has anyone realized that you don't actually need to use a freighter to haul plex?

I mean the key reason to stupidity here is that you can purchase and redeem plex on any character on any account.



This. It's a testament to madness, really, and punishing that is something you can never close the door on.