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Well... I've hit the cliff...
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Elmo Zumwalt
Elmo's Roughnecks
#41 - 2012-11-24 05:35:11 UTC
If they war dec'd you, join Dec Shield. Dec Shield will get them locked forever into a mutual war that they cannot get out of, and it may cause some of their members to leave the enemy corp.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#42 - 2012-11-24 05:54:39 UTC
Elmo Zumwalt wrote:
If they war dec'd you, join Dec Shield. Dec Shield will get them locked forever into a mutual war that they cannot get out of, and it may cause some of their members to leave the enemy corp.

That's getting fixed, by the way.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#43 - 2012-11-24 06:08:52 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Elmo Zumwalt wrote:
If they war dec'd you, join Dec Shield. Dec Shield will get them locked forever into a mutual war that they cannot get out of, and it may cause some of their members to leave the enemy corp.

That's getting fixed, by the way.

Heh, another victory for Dec Shield, the experts at making creative use of highsec wardec mechanics. The hero that non-ganking c highsec combat pvp needs.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-11-24 06:24:58 UTC
L2blob.
Keno Skir
#45 - 2012-11-24 12:15:50 UTC
Think recent devblog said that infinite wardec thing is gettin fixed with new expansion.

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#46 - 2012-11-24 12:27:03 UTC
OP, accept the cliff. It isn't going away. You can look past it on the shoulders of giants, namely the people who do make a successfull living in lowsec. Good points are being made in this topic. From personal experience I can tell you preventing to get caught isn't that hard once you know a few tricks. D-scan is your friend as many people have pointed out. So are bookmarks. "Prepare" a system using a cheap throwaway ship, make bookmarks a few hundred kilometers off gates, a few safes, etc.

Also: fit a Slasher with a webber, scrammer, small neut, shield extender and mwd. Then go kill people practicing in Rifters. Target selection bro, target selection... Blink
Hestia Mar
Calmaretto
#47 - 2012-11-24 14:34:28 UTC
so why go ratting during a wardec, even in low-sec? The bad guys will only use locator agents to find you anyway...get your corp together in frigs/cruisers whatever, and go find the people that have decced you! you may well find that they will only play station games anyway, but at least you're not just docking up and cowering in a station - which gets known and makes your corp more likely to get decced more often.

If you fight the deccers in hi-sec you get the rush of pvp without needing to worry about pierats and other people finding and killing you in low or in gate camps.

H
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#48 - 2012-11-24 15:40:36 UTC
I think everyone admits lo-sec and hi-sec are different games. So the choice is adapt or play in an area that more meets your play style.

From the sounds of it you would make an excellent candidate for WH space.
Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-11-24 17:44:19 UTC
Marvin Narville wrote:
I would imagine you are relatively proficient at industrial tasks no? You seem to have succeeded where you applied effort, at being an industrialist. I suppose if you wanted to be proficient at PvP, you should have spent time on it instead of manufacturing?

As a simple analogy, this is akin to getting a PHD in Literature and complaining that you are struggling as a Nuclear Physicist.

I wouldn't say you've hit some eerie "3 month cliff" at all. I'd say you've never put skill points, practice, or time into ship combat, or learning the nuances of low sec, but simply expect to be proficient at both.


That's a fair point really. Thing is, I have ISK as a result of my mining/trading activities, mainly because I'm good at organising business models. But the idea of another 3 months flying around mining and refining will just do my head in. Need a change before I suffer burnout.
Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-11-24 18:49:36 UTC
A lot of good info here. I think in general I have made a few mistakes

i) Not understod that industry and combat are mutually exclusive. You do one or the other, but not both.

ii) Still dont seem to understand the fitting mechanics of PvP

I guess really I need a hand with the fittings and skills because even using the PvP recommended fits on the battleclinic dont seem to work well. I just to slightly improve my chances.

Or maybe even fly FW?
Doddy
Excidium.
#51 - 2012-11-24 19:50:54 UTC
Using a battleclinic fit without understanding how to use it or why it works is a very common mistake newer players make. Its a bit like the guys who take a battleclinic fit for missioning then use eve survival and think they are good at pve. If you take a kiting fit off BC and then try to brawl with it it won't go well. If you take a frigate hunting fit and try to fight a bs with it it won't go well either. If you try to use a fleet fit solo it won't go well. You get the picture.
Thomas Orca
Broski is ded
#52 - 2012-11-24 19:53:12 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Using a battleclinic fit is a very common mistake players make.


Seriously, there are way better places to get fits.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#53 - 2012-11-24 19:57:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:


And I fully expect a "oh look another noob complaining about how hard the game is, how about you STFU and HTFU and go back to being care bear and leave the fighting to the proper players."


Ask and ye shall recieve.......

Quote:

The whole experience is becoming stupidly frustrating, I go rat in 0.3 0.2 no problems. Make 400k and someone comes along and blows up my caracal, loose 14m get 7m insurance, net profit -6.6m.

Go back, refit, and repeat.


Highlighted your problem, you are doing the same things over and over expecting different results. This is the definition of insanity btw.

At NO TIME do you mention other players, people who YOU befriended to help you do what you want to do. You are trying to play a multiplayer game solo. a guy scramming you from 25km away doesn't mean squat when there is 1 of him and 16 of "you".

Hundreds of thousands of actual people (such as myself) have figured out how to get past the situations you describe and carry on with the game, if you can't without help from the EVE General Discussion forum, you should probably revisit your choice to play EVE Online in the 1st place.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#54 - 2012-11-24 23:59:59 UTC
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:
A lot of good info here. I think in general I have made a few mistakes

i) Not understod that industry and combat are mutually exclusive. You do one or the other, but not both.

No one here said that. The thing you shouldn't do is try to pvp on a character with predominantly industrial skills. Although I wouldn't recommend it, it is possible to have a "mixed" character in terms of skill point distribution. But it would mean that it takes you much longer to reach goals in both pvp and pve. Either way, new players should always focus on pvp first, because doing so teaches important survival skills. And pvp skills coincide with the stuff you need to run missions and rat well, so it's not like you'd be a pauper. Mining isn't the only way to make money you know.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#55 - 2012-11-25 00:31:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Angeal MacNova
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:
So I have been playing for 3 months now, I have built up a reasonably successful Indy corp, making enough to plex myself. Have had our first wardec because a bunch of gate camping Prats took offence to me breaking through their camp so thought now would be a time to try out some lowsec ratting and a bit of PvP.

And I fully expect a "oh look another noob complaining about how hard the game is, how about you STFU and HTFU and go back to being care bear and leave the fighting to the proper players."

I don't wanna, and I'm not.

But.

The whole experience is becoming stupidly frustrating, I go rat in 0.3 0.2 no problems. Make 400k and someone comes along and blows up my caracal, loose 14m get 7m insurance, net profit -6.6m.

Go back, refit, and repeat.

I have a tank that lasts all of 30-40 seconds against pilots that have DPS far in excess of mine, pilots who can warp scram me from 25km, TWENTY FIVE ******* KM.

And people wonder why the majority of players quit after 3 month?

I read fitting guides, watch tutorials, scribble down tactics and plans while on the train, and NOTHING helps to even remotely improve my chances.

Because the only thing to do when your a mostly 6m sp Indi character who can fly ravens on leve 3 missions is sit and stare at roids.

The cliff has hit and I'm not liking it. How can you get over the cliff so not to be basically a target for everything else in the universe?



Your biggest problem is being 3 months old. Seriously that's what it comes down to. Leaving the human factor aside and speaking in terms of game mechanics only, the bonuses you get from your skills makes the greatest difference in the game. Not only do you get bonuses to increase the effectiveness of ships and modules directly, you also require a min level of certain skills to be able to use the better gear (eg. T2 modules). Now these bonuses are per level for each skill and as each skill increase in level, the time it takes to reach the next level becomes greater. This means that, while you will be able to close the gap between you and them, you will unfortunately not be able to catch up with them any time soon simply because of how long the training times can get.

You'll also be quite limited on fitting choices because of those character skills.

My advice is to continue to mine and mission in high sec while you skill up and periodically test your luck at a hub. There is almost always someone there with a can for you to flip or if you want to have the first shot you can put a can out.

The alternative is try your luck getting into a well established null sec corp/alliance. From what I've read of the forums, it's the 2nd safest place provided you stay in home terf. PvP there as part of a fleet.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#56 - 2012-11-25 00:36:36 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
My advice is to continue to mine and mission in high sec while you skill up.

This is very very bad advice. It causes newer players to fall into the "just a little bit more" trap that becomes ever more difficult to escape over time. Whether it's acquiring a little bit more skill points, or some extra ISK, these players will continue to put off engaging in the more difficult aspects of this game until so much time passes, that they don't even want to try anymore. The worst carebear CEOs I've ever seen give this type of advice.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#57 - 2012-11-25 00:42:12 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
My advice is to continue to mine and mission in high sec while you skill up.

This is very very bad advice. It causes newer players to fall into the "just a little bit more" trap that becomes ever more difficult to escape over time. Whether it's acquiring a little bit more skill points, or some extra ISK, these players will continue to put off engaging in the more difficult aspects of this game until so much time passes, that they don't even want to try anymore. The worst carebear CEOs I've ever seen give this type of advice.


Well, I think people with that kind of thought were not really wanting to go the low/null sec route to begin with or if they did, they wouldn't stay for very long. Although I do see your point.

So try his luck with joining a null sec corp/alliance then?

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-11-25 01:23:07 UTC
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:
So I have been playing for 3 months now, I have built up a reasonably successful Indy corp, making enough to plex myself. Have had our first wardec because a bunch of gate camping Prats took offence to me breaking through their camp so thought now would be a time to try out some lowsec ratting and a bit of PvP.
That's probably not the reason why they wardec'ed you. The real reason is most likely that you mouthed off at someone and they took it personally. Of course you'd never admit the truth to anyone here nor to yourself.

Tiberius StarGazer wrote:
The whole experience is becoming stupidly frustrating, I go rat in 0.3 0.2 no problems. Make 400k and someone comes along and blows up my caracal, loose 14m get 7m insurance, net profit -6.6m.

Go back, refit, and repeat.
You are aware of a directional scanner and local channel, right? Paying attention to these will save your life. That and a cloaking device plus safe spots.

Tiberius StarGazer wrote:
I have a tank that lasts all of 30-40 seconds against pilots that have DPS far in excess of mine, pilots who can warp scram me from 25km, TWENTY FIVE ******* KM.

And people wonder why the majority of players quit after 3 month?

I read fitting guides, watch tutorials, scribble down tactics and plans while on the train, and NOTHING helps to even remotely improve my chances.
It's no wonder why new players quit a lot. In your case you're under the delusion that the game conforms to your "reality", then you cry and stomp your feet when you get burned. Instead of whining about getting blown up, maybe you should brush up on tactics on not getting blown up. You know, instead of just saying you did when you obviously did not.

Tiberius StarGazer wrote:
The cliff has hit and I'm not liking it. How can you get over the cliff so not to be basically a target for everything else in the universe?
Acknowledging reality is a good start. There's no shame in not knowing what you're doing but if you insist on wallowing in ignorance then cry about getting hurt then that's all on you and nobody else.

There's plenty of people willing to help and guide you, but not if you can't even face reality.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#59 - 2012-11-25 01:41:36 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Well, I think people with that kind of thought were not really wanting to go the low/null sec route to begin with or if they did, they wouldn't stay for very long. Although I do see your point.

So try his luck with joining a null sec corp/alliance then?

That, or any empire corporation that isn't pvp-averse. It doesn't have to be a hardcore war corporation. There's plenty that dabble in FW, or simply live in low-sec. It's all about exposure. The more danger one is exposed to, the less scary danger becomes. I would bet my money on a month-old player who started off in risky environments, than an 18-month-old player who never left the warm embrace of his Caldari mission hub. It's not even about player attitude, simply because misinformation plays such a huge role in shaping peoples' attitudes in EVE. A lot of these carebears aren't even aware of their own potential simply because their first ever CEO or random miner in local told them "dun do pvp, it sux."

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#60 - 2012-11-25 02:01:30 UTC
One thing I can add to all this.

You ship is already dead as soon as you undock. If doesn't realize it for a couple months, chalk it up to good luck, but realize its already dead.

Accept that, and move on.

You will be much happier, and do much better in EVE.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.