Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I have read all the "hurfle blurfle when is CCP going to tiercide X?" threads. I have posted in said threads. I have given up enough braincells to discussing what is going to be next after Retribution - BCs, CS's and BS's? When's the T2 ship balance going to happen?

Well enough of that crapola. What we really need is a rebalance of T1 industrials.

The problem with the T1 industrial lineup is that half the time you start with skills in Industrials and it takes no time to get above the pre-requisites to get into the tier 2 or in some cases the tier 5 Industrial in no time at all. This needs sorting.

Specific ships have certain other problems. I will go through them all, one by one.

Amarr
Sigil
Problem: Its a sigil.
Virtue: It isn't a Hoarder.

Bestower
Problem: It keeps getting killed in wormholes.
Virtue: It can haul stuff.

Minmatar
Wreathe
Problem: It is pretty useless except for turning into Prowlers
Virtue: It can be turned into a Prowler

Hoarder
Problem: It is as ugly as a slapped butt.
Virtue: It sometimes drops salvge.

Mammoth:
Problem: none
Virtue: Nanoed up, it can outrun dessies. Luls.

Caldari
Badger Mk1
Problem: Not enough slots to turn into a battle badger.
Virtue: At least it isn't a Hoarder

Badger Mk 2
Problem: Mark 2? Is this an actual honest to god improvement? Ahaha
Virtue: It really isn't a Hoarder.

Gallente
Itty I to Itty IV
Problem: It's not an Itty 5
Virtue: It isn't a Hoarder

Itty 5
Problem: not enough gun slots and drones
Virtue: zomg EWAR. And you can fit dual or triple ASBs.

So, as you can see, the major problem with the Industrial ship class tier system is the Hoarder. Seriously, it looks like the art department swallowed too much Legos and took a photo after the laxatives took effect. It has middling cargo capacity, meaning only Little Red Riding Hood would bear it up in it, no real prospect of lulsy combat antics, and has no redeeming features.

Solution: Tiercide
The industrial ship progression should be as exciting for market alts, contract-dumping thieves, orca-humping alts, PI alts, and lunatic Q-ship entrepreneurs. Right now, you just train to level 5, and no one uses the lower-tier ships.

Tiercide of the Industrial hulls should see four to five classes of T1 Industrial ship introduced which will be useful throughout the career of any industrialist or a PVP overlord humping planets for easy free cash. This will see 5 roles introduced for each race, allowing the CCP art department to make amends for damaging my eyeballs with the Hoarder.

Edit: In the following a "racial bonus" is a stereotype racial bonus, eg;
Amarr - armour resistances or HP bonus per level of skill
Gallente - armour rep bonus per level of skill
Caldari - shield resist or HP bonus
Minmatar - Agility / speed bonus per skill level

Role: Rock hauler
Ship bonus: Racial
Role bonus: 30K m3 ore hold
Now your nubs can be effective haulers for your mining fleet! Think: 30K m3 of ore max, or one jetcan load.

Role: Heavy hauler
Ship bonus: 10% bonus per level of Industrial skill to cargo capacity
Role bonus: ??
Large cargo, slow aligning, reasonable EHP. Think Itty V, Mammoth, Bessie.

Role: Q-ship
Ship bonus: Racial bonus, 10% bonus to weapon system optimal
Role bonus: 100% bonus to weapon damage
Has a couple of turret slots/missile slots, resist/rep bonuses, beefed up scan res and reasonable maneuverability. Gives every race a Battle Badger option to deter, eg, solo bombers in null/W-space or similar. Also would bring deadly industrial-on-industrial action into Minors in Faction Warfare, encourage Industrials-only suicide ganking, and in-combat logistical resupply. Plus massive, massive luls.

Role: Smuggler
Ship bonus: Racial
Role bonus: 15% less chance of successful cargo scan result
Allows the entrepreneurial hauler baron to smuggle goods without being pinged. Llikely to be a prime target of suicide gankers, and gives a chance of hauling goodies safely.
Implemented as Blockade Runners being immune to cargo scanning!


Role: Packet ship
Ship bonus: All races: 10% bonus to ship agility per level of Industrial skill
Role bonus: 25% greater MWD speed
Fast aligning, fast-moving, fragile and low cargo (2,000m3 base). Think the T1 baby-daddy of the Prowler, but no cloaking, just quick-aligning and quick back to gate.

Role: Not a Hoarder
Ship bonus: Hull is redesigned.
Role bonus: 100% less ocular agony.

Now the topic has been broached, everyone else can desist from "when is CCP tierciding X hulls" crap, because clearly, this was the ultimate work of awesome and CCP will totally adopt it. No, seriously, its cool.

I'll be honest. As I started to read the OP, I was thinking of ignoring it. Itseemed like a lot of whining. By the end of it, I was interested. Some of this is actually quite creative.

I agree that having 12 T1 haulers that all basically do the same thing with varying degrees of success is a bit pointless. A bit of variation would be good. Whether each of the races would have each of the 5 hulls you have suggested is another matter. I don't see a need for 20 different T1 haulers.

Each race needs a heavy hauler. They are general purpose and fill many roles in of themselves. I would also raise their EHP a bit. As is they have less than a T1 frigate and even if you tank them up they won't reach T1 cruiser levels. I don't think they need a load more, but just enough to get them up so an arty fit cruiser won't alpha them.

Maybe each race could do with one or maybe two of these niche haulers. I like the ore hauler and the packet. They are something I would see being used a lot. I think the Q-ship and the smuggler encroach on the T2 territory too much.

I look forward to more healthy debate on this subject and I hope to see some work on them at the end of the T1 overhaul.

But I like how the Hoarder looks


Anyway, sensible proposal.

I do like those ideas in general. But as the other said some of these are more into T2 lineup. If you put one up to T2 (Q ship would be my best guess) then keeping 4 different roles per race is not that bad anymore. And new Transport ship would be good too.

As for the Hoarder. Well. I actually find it one of the better looking haulers there are.... I mean ITY V!!! WHAT? Just a terrible looking stick. Mammoth! Bleh.

So lets keep the designs and concentrate on the utilization of the Industrials

I agree on some of your posting: Industrials should be removed from tiercide, and get a specific role.

However i envision a completly different role layout:
Suggestions of Industrial Roles:

Small Hauler: Industrial 1 Standard hauler, small cargo hold (5k m3) Standard hauler, +15% speed while cloaked
TII Variant: Blockade runner
Although not capable of warping cloaked, the T1 version would be able to get to full align with industrial lvl 5 while fitting a cloak, The T2 version would as is now be able to warp cloaked

Ore hauler: Industrial 2 Hauler with a medium sized cargo hold (about 1000M3), with a big Orehold, (50k cargo) Cargo and Oreholds able to access by fleet members, in similar fashion as capital ships now.
Role: Loading / unloading for miners, orca and Rorqual
TII Variant: Covert Jump drive capabilities like Black ops

Medium Hauler: Industrial 3 Standard hauler, medium cargo hold ( 10k m3) standard hauler, +1 warp strength
TII Variant: Deep space Hauler

Module Hauler: Industrial 4 Standard Hauler, Big Cargo hold (25k m3) Standard Hauler as the biggest ones are now
TII Variant: Even Bigger Hold

Ship hauler: Industrial 5: Specialized hauler, small (about 500 m3 or less) cargo hold, but Big ship hold (500.000 m3) Specialized in ship moveing, and loading / unloading (super) carriers
TII Variant: Allowance of in space ship storage, similar to carriers now.

Sounds like a good idea to me +1

both of these different paths would produce some really kewl ships.

the original post has great ideas.
i do like the cloaking idea for t1 and t2 as stated later. cant fly cloaked, but still has the ability to cloak and cruise.

make it happen..=)

Great stuff :).
Especially ship storage. Other players could help doing the highsec logistics other than enslaved freighter players forced to do it all by themselves just because they have the space.

A bit off topic, but since this is about cargo etc, I want to toss in:
Noctis, a DECENT seperate storage for PI's commodities (in order to take a lot of P1 for instance); and enough cargo bay space for several command centers. After all, if it is going to be paper thin yet collosal, then this should be fine :).

+1

Good spread of ideas for proper tiericide of the industrials. I'd say the ore hauler should get a bigger bonus, but the essence of the idea is super solid.

Personally, I still think that more than 3 Industrials per race is overkill. For the life of me I still dont understand why it was decided that EvE needed 5 sizes of Iteron.

How about this for a selecton:

Amarr:
Industrial 1 - Q-ship
Industrial 3 - Heavy Hauler
Industrial 4 - Smuggler

Caldari:
Industrial 1 - Packet Ship
Industrial 3 - Heavy Hauler
Industrial 4 - Ore Hauler

Gallente:
Industrial 1 - Q-ship
Industrial 3 - Heavy Hauler
Industrial 4 - Ore Hauler

Minmatar:
Industrial 1 - Packet Ship
Industrial 3 - Heavy Hauler
Industrial 4 - Smuggler

It does call for the loss of a few ships, and the reworking of others, but I think its pretty fair.

As for the the ship mover, I just don't see Industrials being big enough to move that sort of bulk. I had started a thread about a Modular/Specialised Hauler and an Orca sized ship transporter. It also began to cover the prospect of more specialised cargo containers for things like ore, minerals, gas and PI. It's linked in my signature.