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Of High, Low and Null ... A noobs idea for encouraging movement from High Sec

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Kurt Saken
Star Cluster Wanderer
#41 - 2012-11-23 09:51:52 UTC
Hestia Mar wrote:
lived in null with a couple of alliances - and it simply wasn't FUN anymore. CTA's, TS, Vent and Mumble on at the same time, plant a TCU and then replant it after the other guys blow it up, fleet up and sit around for 3 hours doing nothing...why would I want to pay money to do that? Sure, someone in the alliance is living the dream of being a spaceship hero, but it wasn't me!



+1000 to this

I know that feel perfectly. Fortunately i left them and joined another corp where the guys really want to fight when needed and i'm learning a lot living in w-space.

Maybe i ended in the wrong corp-alliance, so i don't blame null. I blame the inactivity, the lots of FCs that are pure garbagge but they think they are good at something and the general carebear atmosphere i lived in.

I will give a try to null in another time, but not now.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#42 - 2012-11-23 09:58:27 UTC
I have deleted some offensive posts from this thread.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2012-11-23 10:00:44 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
I have deleted some offensive posts from this thread.

Working as intended.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#44 - 2012-11-23 23:38:45 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:
In honesty CTAs are understandable. If a blue POS is being RFd or someone's coming to boot you from your home (where almost all your **** is) why wouldn't you try to stop it from happening? Either you face them or pack up and leave

(Though i wouldn't be up for constant CTAs every day every minute just to find out the fight you prepped for wasnt even going to happen either)


If a corp has to call CTA's to get anything done, it begs the question: why do they have to do that? Why don't their members want to defend their corp/alliance assets? Has the corp/alliance ever attempted to ask rather than order?

Personally I wouldn't join any corp or alliance that had mandatory anything as far as in-game activities go. Your time in Eve is your own, and any corp or alliance that doesn't respect that probably isn't worth your effort.

if you were trying to prep for a fight and needed the numbers wouldnt a CTA make sense? Even if it was a be here at this time on this day so we can get this done (non mandatory) youd still need to set up a mass message to everyone saying we need to do this then. otherwise some wouldnt even know it had happened even if they wanted to be in on it

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."
Risien Drogonne
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-11-23 23:47:52 UTC
Oh goodie, another "we can fix the game by ruining highsec!" post.
Zoctrine
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-11-24 00:05:00 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Here is a little story.

around 2 years ago a small band of anarchists gathered 200 super caps and went on a spree of destruction that impacted thousands of players. They wiped out Sov and NAP blocks that had been around for years. There are plenty of rumors as to how they did it but they did do it.

CCP then came in with their mighty nerf bat and shut them down, after the damage was done but none the less, they did come. They also took a look at the wallets of the people who gathered the small by comparison to their enemy fleet and ended up freezing trillions of ISK.

Everyone applauded.

Fast forward 2 years.

15 guys sit in Uedama for 8 hrs a day, every day just before down time and wipe out massive wealth day in day out. Most of the time they spend docked up and AFK. Jumping in to action only when a soft target pokes its head out and can be mutilated. 15 or so guys impacting thousands.

If the original group of 200 had been left unchecked, hadn't been nerfed and hadn't been stopped the 15 guys sitting in Uedama doing what they do wouldn't be sitting in Uedama doing what they do. They would be sitting in null faction crying in their beer because 200 guys took all their space.

Butterfly effect CCP.

Your mess because you stepped in here but not there. There but not here.

You Sir/Madam have my respect, best post I've seen on this new forum.


Interesting enough is CCP doing the same again and again, they don't seem to be that good at learning from experience...
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#47 - 2012-11-24 00:07:59 UTC
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:
if you were trying to prep for a fight and needed the numbers wouldnt a CTA make sense? Even if it was a be here at this time on this day so we can get this done (non mandatory) youd still need to set up a mass message to everyone saying we need to do this then. otherwise some wouldnt even know it had happened even if they wanted to be in on it

A broadcast isn't the same as a CTA. Sure every little frigate roam gets broadcast to all-all a bunch of times, this isn't the same as the amazing log-in-fleet-up-or-kick that some groups have.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-11-24 00:14:06 UTC
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:

if you were trying to prep for a fight and needed the numbers wouldnt a CTA make sense? Even if it was a be here at this time on this day so we can get this done (non mandatory) youd still need to set up a mass message to everyone saying we need to do this then. otherwise some wouldnt even know it had happened even if they wanted to be in on it


CTA's are a bad thing because they turn a game that you are meant to be playing for fun into work.
Bullz3y3
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-11-24 00:55:43 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Most highsecers simply will never touch low/null. There really isnt anything you can do to convince them to try it. Alliances offer 100% free pvp ships and training and the best rats, roids, etc. You explain to them exactly how 0.0 sov is safer then highsec due to having 10 jumps of intel between you and any hostiles, yet they still refuse to try it. You explain that even a noob with half a brain will make more isk in 0.0, counting his losses, then he would highsec, but he still doesn't care.


This should tell you what the true problem is. will give you a hint it is not the hi secer. Null courted and nurtured its cutthroat reputation where little guys are not welcome. Granted its a game flaw in the first place that you can basically claim all of null.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#50 - 2012-11-24 01:08:22 UTC
Torkya Titzoff wrote:
Words

Welcome to EVE. For the love of god, play a while before proposing changes. What?
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-11-24 01:15:59 UTC
I blame the current way missions are done. From the very start they force you into a terrible PVE fit and it jest becomes more and more amplified till the player is soley focused all their skill points, ships, tactics and everything... into a situation that does not stand a remote chance in PVP.

What we need is a total and complete revamp for NPC A.I. and missions. Every mission should be dynamically built with infinite variables so new players can never perfectly predict what to expect. Missions so amazing that new players are like, "Holy ****! This is crazy amazing!!! Bro get in a ship and let's bust some teeth in." Missions that encourage teamwork and tactics.

All of that and more starting at the very first level one mission.
Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#52 - 2012-11-24 01:17:44 UTC
Check my sig for a good idea.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-11-24 01:23:12 UTC
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:
Check my sig for a good idea.

Interesting stuff.
Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#54 - 2012-11-24 01:36:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Shamus O'Reilly
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:
if you were trying to prep for a fight and needed the numbers wouldnt a CTA make sense? Even if it was a be here at this time on this day so we can get this done (non mandatory) youd still need to set up a mass message to everyone saying we need to do this then. otherwise some wouldnt even know it had happened even if they wanted to be in on it

A broadcast isn't the same as a CTA. Sure every little frigate roam gets broadcast to all-all a bunch of times, this isn't the same as the amazing log-in-fleet-up-or-kick that some groups have.

Guess im lucky that 9/10 of my alliance will respond to a CTA because they want to... hey well then my points are moot

Edit: That and i believe you misunderstood me a tad. but its no issue

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-11-24 05:07:40 UTC
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:
Guess im lucky that 9/10 of my alliance will respond to a CTA because they want to... hey well then my points are moot

Edit: That and i believe you misunderstood me a tad. but its no issue


It's my fault - I've always heard CTA's referred to as the mandatory variety (generally mocking them), instead of realizing you might have just been referring to getting information out about a coming op. If your corp/alliance ops are non-mandatory, then it's all good, you're one of the good ones. Any group with mandatory anything is what should be giving pause, especially to anyone looking to join new groups.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#56 - 2012-11-24 06:11:44 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:
Guess im lucky that 9/10 of my alliance will respond to a CTA because they want to... hey well then my points are moot

Edit: That and i believe you misunderstood me a tad. but its no issue

It's my fault - I've always heard CTA's referred to as the mandatory variety (generally mocking them), instead of realizing you might have just been referring to getting information out about a coming op. If your corp/alliance ops are non-mandatory, then it's all good, you're one of the good ones. Any group with mandatory anything is what should be giving pause, especially to anyone looking to join new groups.

Yeah, we do mock the occasional supercapital broadcast that somehow goes to all-all.

Like this one time, everyone received a broadcast telling all supercarriers to log in... followed by a broadcast by Boat to go shoot structures. Yeah... the drakes weren't actually there to kill the structure, you think?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#57 - 2012-11-24 06:13:40 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I blame the current way missions are done. From the very start they force you into a terrible PVE fit and it jest becomes more and more amplified till the player is soley focused all their skill points, ships, tactics and everything... into a situation that does not stand a remote chance in PVP.

What we need is a total and complete revamp for NPC A.I. and missions. Every mission should be dynamically built with infinite variables so new players can never perfectly predict what to expect. Missions so amazing that new players are like, "Holy ****! This is crazy amazing!!! Bro get in a ship and let's bust some teeth in." Missions that encourage teamwork and tactics.

All of that and more starting at the very first level one mission.


Once again I have found a post of yours I agree with. Up is down black is white.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-11-24 06:44:26 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
I blame the current way missions are done. From the very start they force you into a terrible PVE fit and it jest becomes more and more amplified till the player is soley focused all their skill points, ships, tactics and everything... into a situation that does not stand a remote chance in PVP.

What we need is a total and complete revamp for NPC A.I. and missions. Every mission should be dynamically built with infinite variables so new players can never perfectly predict what to expect. Missions so amazing that new players are like, "Holy ****! This is crazy amazing!!! Bro get in a ship and let's bust some teeth in." Missions that encourage teamwork and tactics.

All of that and more starting at the very first level one mission.


Once again I have found a post of yours I agree with. Up is down black is white.

A broken clock is right twice a day.... WHAT AM I SAYING?! Shocked
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#59 - 2012-11-24 07:33:41 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I blame the current way missions are done. From the very start they force you into a terrible PVE fit and it jest becomes more and more amplified till the player is soley focused all their skill points, ships, tactics and everything... into a situation that does not stand a remote chance in PVP.

What we need is a total and complete revamp for NPC A.I. and missions. Every mission should be dynamically built with infinite variables so new players can never perfectly predict what to expect. Missions so amazing that new players are like, "Holy ****! This is crazy amazing!!! Bro get in a ship and let's bust some teeth in." Missions that encourage teamwork and tactics.

All of that and more starting at the very first level one mission.


I wholly agree with your statements.

I have played other PvP MMOs that either have NPC "trainers" or the regular NPC AI is just nasty (DFO) and those certainly prepare the new players a lot better than EvE's static red crosses of boredom.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Hestia Mar
Calmaretto
#60 - 2012-11-24 14:49:24 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I blame the current way missions are done. From the very start they force you into a terrible PVE fit and it jest becomes more and more amplified till the player is soley focused all their skill points, ships, tactics and everything... into a situation that does not stand a remote chance in PVP.

What we need is a total and complete revamp for NPC A.I. and missions. Every mission should be dynamically built with infinite variables so new players can never perfectly predict what to expect. Missions so amazing that new players are like, "Holy ****! This is crazy amazing!!! Bro get in a ship and let's bust some teeth in." Missions that encourage teamwork and tactics.

All of that and more starting at the very first level one mission.


What - like NPC's using drones against mission runners? Good grief, what will we do? At least with totally random mission EVE-Survival won't be of any use so missions will always be something of a lottery, which is how it should be.

I completely agree with you, but I would go further. When a mission is accepted you go to the accel gate to enter the mission which sends you to any system in the game; you run the mission in the knowledge that someone in the system might be trying to scan you down...but there is an accel gate back out of the mission, back to the agent's system.

In addition, if missions required a pvp fit instead of max tank & gank pve fit, the mission runner would have to fight the mission not afk it, and the pvp'rs would have something to think about if they scan down a mission runner in a pvp fitted ship

Risk v Reward!