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Well... I've hit the cliff...
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Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-11-23 22:43:50 UTC
thekiller2002us wrote:
This is idiotic- the definition of insanity is repeating the same task over and over and expecting a different result.

Why repeat the same ****ing thing if you get blown up once before?

i have no sympathy, Adapt or die, you are in the wrong mmo


The idiocy here is from you assuming I haven't tried different ships and fits and that I have been doing this mindlessly over and over again... Well you would be wrong.
Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-11-23 22:45:25 UTC
Zoctrine wrote:
Go to Null, you should do just fine.


I have had an invite from a null alliance, might go see em.
Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-11-23 22:47:03 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Buy rifters and practice.


Well, this is what I've been trying to do.

With Merlins, Condors, Herons, Caracals, Moa's... Just don't last long enough to really learn anything useful.
Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-11-23 22:48:31 UTC
Lance Rossiter wrote:
Here are three basic methodologies for improving your chances in low sec:

1. Don't get caught: This is the idea of constantly refreshing and checking your directional scanner so that you can see if someone's attempting to probe you down. Checking local for potential hazards, infoing strangers, etc. is another part of this, and so is fitting ship agility modules that can help you align to warp faster. Make sure you're either zoomed pretty far out or have suitable overview settings to be able to react immediately if an unfamiliar pilot appears on your grid. Also check out map statistics - are there lots of players active in the system recently? Have their been any pod kills?

2. Don't get trapped: This is the strategy of accepting that sometimes people will get close enough to you for long enough to scramble you, and the objective is to be able to survive and get away regardless. Warp Core Stabilizers can achieve this, and you can still be able to fight if you fit your ships with this in mind: such as by adding a sensor booster with a range script, or relying primarily on auto-targeting missiles (which aren't great, but a lot better than their reputation suggests). ECM is another option here, and you can also try methods revolving around being faster than your attacker. If you can break his target lock, you can escape him. Be wary of pirates who are familiar with your tactics or are able to bring in friends.

3. Don't get found: Not as suitable for public spaces like asteroid belts, but very useful for missioning and similar activities, this is the strategy of making it harder for an enemy to scan you down. Basically, you need to get your (signature radius / sensor strength) as low as possible, and you do this by fitting ECCM modules and/or backup sensor arrays. You need to be able to achieve a very low end result for this to be at all useful, I'd shoot for around three and under: and you can still be found by a fully bonused scanner until you get down to a little over one, but it seems to deter more casual would-be assailants.

Edit: Important note - this doesn't work if you use drones.

Those are the three methods I use the most to help prolong my survival in low sec. Other options include bringing enough support to be a poor target, or, of course, winning the fights!


Handy thanks :D
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-11-23 22:50:45 UTC
I agree with the whole go to 0.0 thing. Do it.

There are plenty of quiet systems in 0.0.

The ratting is better.

You can make more isk, have more fun, and learn more.

Heck, bring your entire corp down to providence or to some other region of 0.0.

Btw, a 3 month old character can beat a 3 year old character. This happens all of the time. Most pvp fights are a matter of who fit what in what ship and who got the jump on the other. Think of it this way, the person who is -choosing- to engage you will be rather confident that they have the upper hand. If they didn't (and had a bad ship to go up against yours) then they would not engage.

Only a few fights are dictated by pilot skill. Even less are determined by character skill points.
Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-11-23 22:50:47 UTC
Mai Khumm wrote:
You go...alone... To lowsec to rat, and expect to be left alone by pirates?

This is a joke right? Like seriously...where's the hidden camera?

Also, caracal sucks for solo pvp...



Didn't say I expected to be left alone, I quite clearly said I wanted to try some PvP, what I am saying is I've hit the cliff where I am trying to learn PvP and not doing so well I am getting frustrated.
Marvin Narville
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-11-23 22:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Marvin Narville
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:


Because the only thing to do when your a mostly 6m sp Indi character who can fly ravens on leve 3 missions is sit and stare at roids.



I would imagine you are relatively proficient at industrial tasks no? You seem to have succeeded where you applied effort, at being an industrialist. I suppose if you wanted to be proficient at PvP, you should have spent time on it instead of manufacturing?

As a simple analogy, this is akin to getting a PHD in Literature and complaining that you are struggling as a Nuclear Physicist.

I wouldn't say you've hit some eerie "3 month cliff" at all. I'd say you've never put skill points, practice, or time into ship combat, or learning the nuances of low sec, but simply expect to be proficient at both.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-11-23 22:58:05 UTC
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Buy rifters and practice.


Well, this is what I've been trying to do.

With Merlins, Condors, Herons, Caracals, Moa's... Just don't last long enough to really learn anything useful.

Honestly join EVE University. There is a ton of stuff to learn in this game and they by far will teach you as much as you are willing to know about the basics. If you join a null alliance with very little experience then I hope you are prepared to kiss major butt and worship the ground they walk on. Do yourself a favor and don't be cannon fodder for them. And above all do not trust anyone who wants to help you move your assets and or want some ISK to get in. They are trying to scam you and want nothing more than for you to become frustrated and quit the game. Also after you learn some basics RvB can be a healthy stepping stone. Just don't become more knowledgeable about game mechanics than their leadership.
Nerpimus
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-11-23 23:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerpimus
Marvin Narville wrote:


I would imagine you are relatively proficient at industrial tasks no? You seem to have succeeded where you applied effort, at being an industrialist. I suppose if you wanted to be proficient at PvP, you should have spent time on it instead of manufacturing?

As a simple analogy, this is akin to getting a PHD in Literature and complaining that you are struggling as a Nuclear Physicist.

I wouldn't say you've hit some eerie "3 month cliff" at all. I'd say you've never put skill points, practice, or time into ship combat, or learning the nuances of low sec, but simply expect to be proficient at both.


This. You've been playing for three months and some change, and looking at your killboard, you can already fly a Bustard. That means you've spent somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 days of those few months training for that ship alone.

Also, take the time to research some PvP fits before taking your ships out. The Caracal you lost earlier today wasn't exactly well kit out.
YoYo NickyYo
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-11-24 00:06:13 UTC
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome each time.....Oops


I am not, nor will I ever be...Nicky Yo.... The question you should ask is.....When will they release the NICKY!
Doddy
Excidium.
#31 - 2012-11-24 00:40:23 UTC
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:
So I have been playing for 3 months now, I have built up a reasonably successful Indy corp, making enough to plex myself. Have had our first wardec because a bunch of gate camping Prats took offence to me breaking through their camp so thought now would be a time to try out some lowsec ratting and a bit of PvP.

And I fully expect a "oh look another noob complaining about how hard the game is, how about you STFU and HTFU and go back to being care bear and leave the fighting to the proper players."

I don't wanna, and I'm not.

But.

The whole experience is becoming stupidly frustrating, I go rat in 0.3 0.2 no problems. Make 400k and someone comes along and blows up my caracal, loose 14m get 7m insurance, net profit -6.6m.

Go back, refit, and repeat.

I have a tank that lasts all of 30-40 seconds against pilots that have DPS far in excess of mine, pilots who can warp scram me from 25km, TWENTY FIVE ******* KM.

And people wonder why the majority of players quit after 3 month?

I read fitting guides, watch tutorials, scribble down tactics and plans while on the train, and NOTHING helps to even remotely improve my chances.

Because the only thing to do when your a mostly 6m sp Indi character who can fly ravens on leve 3 missions is sit and stare at roids.

The cliff has hit and I'm not liking it. How can you get over the cliff so not to be basically a target for everything else in the universe?


I think your problem is that you want to be a pvper but spent 3 months carebearing before you started. All the time you have spent in eve not pvping is completely irrelevant, you are in just the same situation a day 1 noob who went into pvo from the start is in except you are flying a more expensive ship and learned bad habits shooting npcs.

You should never pvp in your pve ship regardless of how much sp you have, its just dumb. A caracal is perfect for lo sec ratting, but when someone enters system with you you should warp to a safe spot and hide, not wait for them to come kill you.
You should have completely different ships, set ups and mindset for pve and pvp. Really you should be using t1 frigates till you have grasped the basics, say till you have 10 kills to your name? lo sec is a bit dangerous for learning pvp, the ideal scenario is a war dec, pity you wasted that, not that being war decced by gate campers makes any sense.
Spurty
#32 - 2012-11-24 00:48:53 UTC
You need the A-Team

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Zoctrine
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-11-24 00:54:28 UTC
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:
I have had an invite from a null alliance, might go see em.

That is a risk, you may find a good corp/alliance, however, you are more likely to find a bad one.

What I meant was, do what you have been doing except do it in Null, as was pointed out in a post above, Null rats have way better rewards and as it stands there's numerous ghost system's, I have no problem stating that currently Null Space is the safest for a solo intrepid, all you need to do is spend couple weeks (even less) scouting and at the end you will have a couple hands full of systems to grind in peace.

Hope you find your place, enjoy the game mate...
Shenra Twrin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-11-24 00:58:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Shenra Twrin
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:


I have a tank that lasts all of 30-40 seconds against pilots that have DPS far in excess of mine, pilots who can warp scram me from 25km, TWENTY FIVE ******* KM.



Just for your information


there is a Difference between Scrambler and DISTRUPOR

SCRAMBLER : http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Warp_Scrambler_I
A scrambler normaly works around 10km +/- 3-4km (overheat or factionstuff)

IT GOT a Warp Scramble Strength (power of canceling your ship go into warp(standart power of a ship is 1) of 2-3 (depends on meta lvl) because there are some ships which have a higher warp strength or ships fittet with Warp Core Stabilizers
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Ship_Equipment:Propulsion_:Propulsion_Upgrades:Warp_Core_Stabilizers

AND he can interdict your MWD module (Afterburnes still work) so u cant use it anymore

Pro: high strenght + enemy can use mwd anymore aslong in range
Con: NO RANGE

Disruptor: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Warp_Disruptor_I
IT got a warp ("""cancel""") strength 1

and it have a HUGE range of 20km (t1) 25km (t2) 30km (faction) + boost and overhead easy 40-48km warp disruption ( you cant warp away)
but you still can use MWD and AB ( so you can gtfo fast)


Pros: HUGE ******* RANGE
con : only Warp Scramble Strength of 1 and you still can use mwd BUT normaly you have fited a web or/and also a mwd or ab on it to keep in range or get in range.




my 2cents for u
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#35 - 2012-11-24 01:34:46 UTC
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:
I have built up a reasonably successful Indy corp

I think I found your problem right there.

Well, lots of people gave some nice advice to you, so I'll try to give some unique input.

First of all, three months of play time is way too little to jump to conclusions in this game. Time in EVE scales differently from usual, and your own personal progress looks more like the graph of a parabola's right side (exponential growth) than an inverse hyperbola (growth starts off quick but tapers off, like in most other games). Your understanding of the game three months in is almost inconsequential.

That said, don't be discouraged. You will get better, if you are patient, and actively try to better yourself.

You definitely shouldn't be running a corporation at this point in time. In my eyes, high-sec indy corporations run by 3-month-old "pros" are basically ransom pinatas. I've had so many wars with them, and extracted so many tens of billions of ISK, that I've essentially funded my accounts and pvp habits for half a decade.

Dissolve your corporation.

I know, you probably don't want to do it. But you really don't have a choice. You are simply not experienced enough to take on an EVE leadership role at this time.

Now stop training industrial skills.

Yes, you probably don't want to do that either. But you will need to either adapt your character for pvp (it's better than biomassing and starting from scratch), or you'll need to get an alt and train it exclusively for pvp, which I'm not sure you'd want to do this early on. Until you literally run out of pvp skills to train, which I wouldn't worry about for many years, you shouldn't mix and match industrial and pvp skills on the same character. That's not to say you shouldn't do indy stuff; all it means is that you should focus.

Finally, join a pvp corporation.

No, that doesn't mean join another carebear corporation that put "pvp roamz!" into its corp bio/recruitment spam, but then disbands at the first sign of a war declaration from a one-man griefer alt corporation. An actual pvp corporation. You will learn much quicker that way. Just reading guides doesn't help, trust me.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#36 - 2012-11-24 02:41:07 UTC
Did it hurt?

My Dad hit a cliff once, and I'm pretty sure it hurt.

I hit a cliff once, and I know it hurt. Like the bloody blazes actually. Dropped 10 feet, caught my chin on a projection and it flipped me over backwards with the force of it. I spun through the air and landed flat on my back on a granite bluff at the base of the waterfall, some 20 feet below where I started falling.

Rolled onto my front and hoisted myself off the ground over a few seconds or more, stood, looked at some guys who were white as sheets and staring at me, wiped the blood off my chin and painfully made my way up the path around the cliff and back to the car.

Didn't break anything, but when I checked the gash on my chin in the mirror, it spread open to reveal pure, white bone beneath the blood; about a half inch wide strip 2 inches long. Still got the scar.

Ah.. memories. Smile
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
ugh zug
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-11-24 02:59:01 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
Buy PLEX for $, sell PLEX for isk, buy a good char and a good ship. Then read lots of things.



sure pay to win is the answer to everything in eve, just ask ccp.

Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post,1B. Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-11-24 03:06:05 UTC
ugh zug wrote:
Demolishar wrote:
Buy PLEX for $, sell PLEX for isk, buy a good char and a good ship. Then read lots of things.



sure pay to win is the answer to everything in eve, just ask ccp.


CCP confirms that if you officer fit a faction ship you can own losec solo

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-11-24 03:23:09 UTC
you can run incursions in safety in hi-sec and make at least 50m and hour. 100m an hour once you get in a good ship and a good fleet. ratting is for chumps
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-11-24 05:22:59 UTC
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Buy rifters and practice.


Well, this is what I've been trying to do.

With Merlins, Condors, Herons, Caracals, Moa's... Just don't last long enough to really learn anything useful.



How are your fitting skills?

You have engineering and eletronics to 5 so you can fit as much as possible? How about the shield/armor skills? What are you doing damage with? have you trained up gunnery/missiles/drones beyond the bare minimum?