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Malcanis

Vanishing Point.

The Initiative.

Likes received: 18,382

#121 - 2012-11-22 17:51:20 UTC

Snow Axe wrote:

Malcanis wrote:

Also, how do articles about Planetside, Mechwarrior or WoT advance the CFC? Or am I being naive here?

I never said it made sense ;)

That's how it goes, though. It was published on a site named after Mittens, therefore it must be purely to advance the CFC or its narrative in some way or another. Any attempt to explain otherwise just makes you "one of them".

I may as well be "them"ed now; wait untill you see what happens after Christmas. I'll be super-double "them" then.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Mag's

Azn Empire

Likes received: 21,366

#122 - 2012-11-22 18:11:43 UTC

LHA Tarawa wrote:

Tippia wrote:

LHA Tarawa wrote:

I've not seen a single post from a carebear asking that the PVPers be removed from game.

I'd say you haven't been paying attention, then. They're around and they do indeed often come in the form of requests for PvP switches or locking people out of highsec or completely new shards (not just for restarting, but for a completely different game that is not EVE). When the mention of “allowing different play styles” comes along, it often actually means “disallow certain play styles — specifically the ones that interfere with me”. EVE already allows for all the play-styles people are asking for, and that request have a nasty tendency of ultimately trying to hide a restriction of play styles behind shallow rhetoric of allowing it, and pointing this out gets you shouted down as being a close-minded nullsec zealot who's trying to keep people from playing.

Now we may be moving into the realm of splitting hairs in semantics.

Real world, the saying goes... your right to swing your fist ends at my face. Unless, of course, we're in the boxing ring (or MMA octagon).

If my play style is carebear, and your play style is PVP, then "no interferance with each other's play styles" would dictate that your right to PVP ends at my ship, unless I step into the ring.... that is, low/null sec.

Now, I would not go nearly that far, since I realize there are limited resources that even carebears are going after. How am I going to pay for my army of alt by mining fatty belts, if you have mined up all the belts and bought up all the PLEX from the market to fund your army of alts. AND, if I'm getting too big for my britches... moving around billions of ISK worth of goods in a freighter, and not even scouting and using the friendly web trick... well... I should get blown up for profit.

I actually pretty much like EVE as it is. High sec relatively, but not totally safe. Revitalize low sec with FW. Strong null sec.

What EVE needs is more PVPers that are content to PVP with other players that enjoy PVPing, and fewer sociopaths that want to blow up the ships of carebears.

What's the matter griefer? Can't win a fight against someone that is ready and looking to fight back, so have to take out your frustration by beating up on the people that are not ready for, not looking for a fight?

Pathetic losers, those people are.

Oh... look at me... I'm such an awesome PVPer that I logged off in a belt during a war, then put an out of corp, cloaked up alt in the belt. When a WT came in, I used the out of corp alt to bump the WT while I logged in my PVP toon, and blew up the defenseless miner....

Did you do it to prevent them from mining the belts so you could mine them instead? Nope... just wanted to pad my kill board sats with easy kills to inflate my epeen, and to feast on tasty carebear tears....

Sociopath!

This is irony, right?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.


Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. Likes received: 18,382	#123 - 2012-11-22 18:13:21 UTC 2 I prefer to think of it as a convenient and excellent example. "Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming." Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016


Mag's Azn Empire Likes received: 21,366	#124 - 2012-11-22 18:25:30 UTC \| Edited by: Mag's 1 Malcanis wrote: I prefer to think of it as a convenient and excellent example. Well it's that for sure. Edit: Nice read btw bud. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Andski

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 11,585

#125 - 2012-11-22 18:48:23 UTC

Mara Rinn wrote:

Since your piece was "on message" the editors let it through. And since you didn't publish elsewhere and have your article syndicated, people must read it on that site, driving up page views, putting other articles in front of curious eyes, ensuring that the rest of the message gets received.

See, propaganda can work even without the assistance of the writers.

wow you have some nice insights on our editorial process don't you

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

New Eden Browncoats 184
Lady Zarrina New Eden Browncoats Likes received: 184	#126 - 2012-11-22 19:09:35 UTC yup good read, Eve is definitely better with a 'it takes all kinds" approach. But the comments were great. No names, but someone sure wants level 4 missions moved outta hi-sec :) EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie


Andski Science and Trade Institute Caldari State Likes received: 11,585	#127 - 2012-11-22 19:16:17 UTC "the mittani is a MURDERER (he told a guy to kill himself! OMG) he should not be allowed to do things like run a site" Twitter: @EVEAndski "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Blue Nine Industries 118
Mersault Blue Nine Industries Likes received: 118	#128 - 2012-11-22 19:19:47 UTC Malcanis wrote: Hope this helps QFT

3,578
Josef Djugashvilis Likes received: 3,578	#129 - 2012-11-22 19:29:54 UTC 2 Andski wrote: "the mittani is a MURDERER (he told a guy to kill himself! OMG) he should not be allowed to do things like run a site" You are being too hard on mittens. The fellow said 'sorry' and I do believe he was horrified at what he had said at the fanfest. Time to let it go This is not a signature.

Remiel Pollard

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 8,858

#130 - 2012-11-22 20:03:31 UTC

This post led me to investigate some of Goonswarms activities in other MMOs, and I must say I was highly amused by both their tactics of "causing much chaos and tears" in Star Trek Online and the reaction they received on the STO forums.

I don't think the "carebears" of EVE even come close to the furballs of STO. What a pack of absolute crying little babies they have over there - I will never look down on a member of our community again after going through that STO thread.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Mosquito Squadron D0GS OF WAR 481
Kinis Deren Mosquito Squadron D0GS OF WAR Likes received: 481	#131 - 2012-11-22 21:46:18 UTC The throuble with any society, be it real or virtual, is that members all too easily succumb to existentialist bad faith . An interesting read Malcanis, but I very much doubt it will change any of the entrenched viewpoints held within the game.

Auric Veldfinger

Doomheim

Likes received: 42

#132 - 2012-11-22 22:26:04 UTC

LHA Tarawa wrote:

Real world, the saying goes... your right to swing your fist ends at my face. Unless, of course, we're in the boxing ring (or MMA octagon).

If my play style is carebear, and your play style is PVP, then "no interferance with each other's play styles" would dictate that your right to PVP ends at my ship, unless I step into the ring.... that is, low/null sec.

Now, I would not go nearly that far, since I realize there are limited resources that even carebears are going after. How am I going to pay for my army of alt by mining fatty belts, if you have mined up all the belts and bought up all the PLEX from the market to fund your army of alts. AND, if I'm getting too big for my britches... moving around billions of ISK worth of goods in a freighter, and not even scouting and using the friendly web trick... well... I should get blown up for profit.

I actually pretty much like EVE as it is. High sec relatively, but not totally safe. Revitalize low sec with FW. Strong null sec.

What EVE needs is more PVPers that are content to PVP with other players that enjoy PVPing, and fewer sociopaths that want to blow up the ships of carebears.

What's the matter griefer? Can't win a fight against someone that is ready and looking to fight back, so have to take out your frustration by beating up on the people that are not ready for, not looking for a fight?

Pathetic losers, those people are.

Oh... look at me... I'm such an awesome PVPer that I logged off in a belt during a war, then put an out of corp, cloaked up alt in the belt. When a WT came in, I used the out of corp alt to bump the WT while I logged in my PVP toon, and blew up the defenseless miner....

Did you do it to prevent them from mining the belts so you could mine them instead? Nope... just wanted to pad my kill board sats with easy kills to inflate my epeen, and to feast on tasty carebear tears....

Sociopath!

Rights to prevent something happening do not exist, there is only punishment after the fact which sometimes, but not always, acts as a deterrent. Not everyone is deterred. In this respect EVE is analogous to real life, and has got it right.

MatrixSkye Mk2

Republic University

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 882

#133 - 2012-11-23 01:18:03 UTC | Edited by: CCP Eterne

*Snipped off-topic discussion* - CCP Eterne

Yes. I still read the article. And I'm glad I did. It was a good read and didn't find it particularly biased in one direction. I liked it because it was truthful; at least as truthful as the writer perceives the truth to be, which is somewhat how I perceive it. But, I have to say, I feel the same about the site.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Krixtal Icefluxor

INLAND EMPIRE Galactic

Likes received: 114,583

#134 - 2012-11-23 01:22:15 UTC | Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor

Somehow the discussion of the article has stopped............and for the usual reasons.

Gee, thanks Marlona for resurrecting the dead from April. Roll

EDIT: Ever heard of "Let Go" and "Move On" ?

Besides, you went off topic by not discussing the article AND bringing up nonsense the AUTHOR was not even involved in that is absolutely irrelevant.

This was not a thread to air opinions of Alex. You did nothing but throw another Victory in that general direction. Congratulations.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck." - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Ioci

Bad Girl Posse

Likes received: 619

#135 - 2012-11-23 05:39:58 UTC

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Somehow the discussion of the article has stopped............and for the usual reasons.

Gee, thanks Marlona for resurrecting the dead from April. Roll

That involves an EVE-O and GD thing that has been in the works from the beginning. It's less a matter of what works in the end, the method remains the same. Derail to fail. Troll it, flame it, inject a more popular side topic. It's a derailing tactic and it sends threads off to the bottom.

The original link has a point to make. Motive. That's the tldr version. What motivates us to do anything in EVE?

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Malcanis

Vanishing Point.

The Initiative.

Likes received: 18,382

#136 - 2012-11-23 06:38:58 UTC

Kinis Deren wrote:

The throuble with any society, be it real or virtual, is that members all too easily succumb to existentialist bad faith . An interesting read Malcanis, but I very much doubt it will change any of the entrenched viewpoints held within the game.

I do too. I wanted to write it anyway.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis

Vanishing Point.

The Initiative.

Likes received: 18,382

#137 - 2012-11-23 06:43:20 UTC

Ioci wrote:

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Somehow the discussion of the article has stopped............and for the usual reasons.

Gee, thanks Marlona for resurrecting the dead from April. Roll

That's a good subject for a future article, but it wasn't the intended point. The point is that, when you're making up stories about your opponents in order to try and win an argument, remember that they're just stories. As soon as you start believing your own lies, then matters will spiral out of control very quickly and you're running an extreme risk of damaging or failing at your original goal.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Sigma Special Tactics Group 8,697
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group Likes received: 8,697	#138 - 2012-11-23 07:45:59 UTC Well written article. Could not have written better words on the topic myself. So, once we have dispelled the Big Lie, where do we go from here? Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Malcanis

Vanishing Point.

The Initiative.

Likes received: 18,382

#139 - 2012-11-23 07:49:23 UTC | Edited by: Malcanis

Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

Well written article. Could not have written better words on the topic myself.

So, once we have dispelled the Big Lie, where do we go from here?

Oh Herzog, you're adorable. The Big Lie hasn't been dispelled, merely briefly illuminated.

Not that it was without value, of course;

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

John 3:20

But don't get the idea that merely because the fallacy has been exposed that it has been forever defeated. At best, a few people have been given some tools that they'll occasionally use when it suits them. For a while. No more could reasonably be hoped for.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

C C P C C P Alliance 3,569
CCP Eterne C C P C C P Alliance Likes received: 3,569	#140 - 2012-11-23 09:42:00 UTC I have cleaned the off-topic posts in this thread. Please keep discussion related to the article that was posted. EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept @CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents