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FW: rebalancing NPCs and you

First post First post
Author
Rengerel en Distel
#541 - 2012-11-22 15:21:27 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

It sounds like rats active tanks need to be beefed up a bit. But really I think its foolish for ccp to assume rats will be the protection of faction war. To the extent CCP keep focusing on rats as the defense, plexing will remain a farming pve game.

They stated that appropriately sized ships will be able to kill rats in plexes. So I think by their own definition they aren't executing this new plex rat feature correctly - yet.


They're talking about release candidate builds starting early next week, which makes that "yet" a bit troubling. I guess fixing the show info messages and putting the correct rats in the plex aren't hard, but would still love to test to see a working FW system before it goes live.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#542 - 2012-11-22 17:51:46 UTC
There's been a lot of changes and beta versions of the new FW plexes on Bucky lately, but what we have on there as of today is getting very close to ready. If you guys want to check them out we'd welcome feedback.

Known bugs:
-The names of the beacons is currently incorrect and doesn't list which type (Stonghold, Installation, Facility) the plex is.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Lili Lu
#543 - 2012-11-22 19:02:20 UTC
Fozzie, did you guys put medium plexes back to just tech I and faction cruisers? Beacause until you do that you are just breaking one of the best things you did with the initial set of FW plex changes. And, if you persist in allowing tech II and III cruisers into medium plexes you are basically rendering almost all of your effort to rebalance and buff tech I cruisers moot. Sad
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#544 - 2012-11-22 19:10:02 UTC
T3s are not allowed into Mediums, T2 cruisers are.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#545 - 2012-11-22 19:14:48 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
T3s are not allowed into Mediums, T2 cruisers are.


gosh darn it, now i will be killed in my moa by every cerberus that comes along!

oh wait...

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Lili Lu
#546 - 2012-11-22 19:17:37 UTC
It will still result in HAC, Recon, and tech II logi gangs stomping on any tech I ships that might want to enter. This is fine out in the open. But that has been one of the great things about FW plexe restrictions is the fielding of tech I frigates and cruisers by everyone, new and old players. Changing the restrictions will render tech I cruisers not worth taking into that environment.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#547 - 2012-11-22 19:22:14 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Lili Lu wrote:
It will still result in HAC, Recon, and tech II logi gangs stomping on any tech I ships that might want to enter. This is fine out in the open. But that has been one of the great things about FW plexe restrictions is the fielding of tech I frigates and cruisers by everyone, new and old players. Changing the restrictions will render tech I cruisers not worth taking into that environment.


I disagree. Bring a recon in against a vexor sitting at 0 on the warpin and see what happens.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Lili Lu
#548 - 2012-11-22 19:39:24 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:
It will still result in HAC, Recon, and tech II logi gangs stomping on any tech I ships that might want to enter. This is fine out in the open. But that has been one of the great things about FW plexe restrictions is the fielding of tech I frigates and cruisers by everyone, new and old players. Changing the restrictions will render tech I cruisers not worth taking into that environment.


I disagree. Bring a recon in against a vexor sitting at 0 on the warpin and see what happens.

BTW for everyone testing, we are aware that the rats are currently not tanking quite as well as we would have liked.

Sure a lone Recon is probably not going to enter a plex that is occupied. But a lone HAC will probably give that a go. There is nothing wrong with having tech II be stronger, they do afterall require more training have better resists.

The point is that the current in-game plex restrictions have been great for the most part. Plenty of tech I frigs and cruisers get used. To mess with what is already working quite well is a perilous thing. I sure hope you are right that tech I cruisers will continue to see lots of use in FW. I don't think they will though. You are removing a place where they could compete. Once people realize they will lose their tech I cruiser gangs to tech II cruiser gangs noone will bother flying tech I cruisers.

FW has been great for tech I frigate and Cruiser use. Because of the current plex restrictions the militias regularly roam in those ships. They can look for fights on roughly equal terms because neither gang is going to be able to follow the other into those sites with beefier ships. Removing a place where tech I cruisers are a requirement will result in them not being sufficient.

Again, i hope you are right. But I think on this, you are not.Straight
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#549 - 2012-11-22 19:39:47 UTC
Posting here because it's FW-related. Are acceleration gates going to continue to make people invulnerable? **** is ridiculous.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#550 - 2012-11-22 19:48:59 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Posting here because it's FW-related. Are acceleration gates going to continue to make people invulnerable? **** is ridiculous.


The fact that someone can always enter a FW plex as long as they do not hang around outside for any length of time is intended design.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#551 - 2012-11-22 19:55:37 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Posting here because it's FW-related. Are acceleration gates going to continue to make people invulnerable? **** is ridiculous.


The fact that someone can always enter a FW plex as long as they do not hang around outside for any length of time is intended design.


But... but I need this for anti-blob work, for splitting people up. Why do you guys hate fun so much?
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#552 - 2012-11-22 20:13:25 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Posting here because it's FW-related. Are acceleration gates going to continue to make people invulnerable? **** is ridiculous.


The fact that someone can always enter a FW plex as long as they do not hang around outside for any length of time is intended design.


But... but I need this for anti-blob work, for splitting people up. Why do you guys hate fun so much?


Lol, although I can see what you mean, there is always new tricks that small gangs can pull on blobs :)

bet there will be at least 8 more cool things figured out once the new crimewatch comes into the picture

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#553 - 2012-11-22 20:17:46 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
But... but I need this for anti-blob work, for splitting people up. Why do you guys hate fun so much?


Right, anti-blob. So when you're in a thrasher, and you want to run some small plexes, a blob of veterans with a massive HAC/BC fleet and insta-locking tackle can't camp a small and keep you from having fun.

Plex restrictions would be rendered pointless if you couldn't use them to shake a larger blob to begin with.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#554 - 2012-11-22 20:26:13 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
But... but I need this for anti-blob work, for splitting people up. Why do you guys hate fun so much?


Right, anti-blob. So when you're in a thrasher, and you want to run some small plexes, a blob of veterans with a massive HAC/BC fleet and insta-locking tackle can't camp a small and keep you from having fun.

Plex restrictions would be rendered pointless if you couldn't use them to shake a larger blob to begin with.


(such a scrub)

How about don't warp to things with blobs on them? Just like the rest of the time. It's not like it's hard to D-scan or come in at range. All a camp could do to someone who isn't a noob is deny entry.

The idea is to catch stragglers when a gang is inside, so I have 2 warps-worth of time to kill them before backup lands. Also it would be preferable for me to fight people outside a plex if it's not a blobby situation, because I wouldn't have to deal with a tonne of NPCs attacking me for no reason.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#555 - 2012-11-22 20:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
TrouserDeagle wrote:
because I wouldn't have to deal with a tonne of NPCs attacking me for no reason.


Have you even looked out the new plexes yet?

And you're welcome to taunt my PvP ability (I'm thoroughly mediocre) but this is not about "L2P, don't warp to blobs noob".

It's about a militia's ability to spread out and cover ALL gates in a system, and effectively lock it down with a blob on each plex as they spawn, preventing ANY ships from entering, even if they are small enough to be permitted and the blob isn't.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#556 - 2012-11-22 20:36:22 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
because I wouldn't have to deal with a tonne of NPCs attacking me for no reason.


Have you even looked out the new plexes yet?

And you're welcome to taunt my PvP ability (I'm thoroughly mediocre) but this is not about "L2P, don't warp to blobs noob".

It's about a militia's ability to spread out and cover ALL gates in a system, and effectively lock it down with a blob on each plex as they spawn, preventing ANY ships from entering, even if they are small enough to be permitted and the blob isn't.


I've not, but I look forward to them, even if the gate invulnerability nonsense won't be changed. I don't see why it's important that people have the ability to not get caught on acceleration gates when pretty much every day I run into gangs of instalocking destroyers on stargates (I hate them so much).
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#557 - 2012-11-22 20:59:32 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
There's been a lot of changes and beta versions of the new FW plexes on Bucky lately (...)

If you guys want to check them out we'd welcome feedback.

feedback is still the same:
- having the flag next to the warpin is uncool for various reasons (eliminates kiting ships, makes fight mechanics very similar to normal gatecamps etc.. as already discussed in this thread)
- still nobody really answered why this change has been made in the first place esp in context with the other improvements in FW or the possible alternatives for encouraging fights.
- i still haven't found a major plex (might be connected to the wrong plex name bug.. don't know)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#558 - 2012-11-22 21:23:29 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
There's been a lot of changes and beta versions of the new FW plexes on Bucky lately (...)

If you guys want to check them out we'd welcome feedback.

feedback is still the same:
- having the flag next to the warpin is uncool for various reasons (eliminates kiting ships, makes fight mechanics very similar to normal gatecamps etc.. as already discussed in this thread)
- still nobody really answered why this change has been made in the first place esp in context with the other improvements in FW or the possible alternatives for encouraging fights.
- i still haven't found a major plex (might be connected to the wrong plex name bug.. don't know)


The large plexes should be appearing as often as the Unrestricted do on TQ.

As for the kiting issue, as of the most recent builds the contesting range of each capture point in every plex is 30km. So you can be contesting the plex while sitting 40km from the entry point, and for fights that start elsewhere you have a bit of room to move around before even leaving contestion range.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#559 - 2012-11-22 21:38:10 UTC
I will miss running Majors solo in my Naga. Nothing quite says 'don't even try it' like a Naga.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#560 - 2012-11-22 21:42:50 UTC
Don’t really see any change in the NPC’s from the other day. Took the Incursus out again and killed the single NPC in each plex size rookie, small, medium and Large.

I seem to be only encountering one NPC (although this time I did not hang around for the full timer duration in all plexes)

The NPC drops only one Tag (battle cruiser in large dropped 2) are there any tag changes planned?

The battlecruiser was tanking some damage it is possible that it was the penetrating hits that pushed through its tank.

30km activation zone for timer in plex (seems to be the same for all plex sizes), timer is near the warp in about 10km, still not keen on this distance with this radius it is too easy for a brawler to sit on the warp in. (not sure why I am complaining I normally fit like that anyway)

It is strange but I miss the NPC’s in a way especially on the test server, you kill one NPC and then just sit flying round in circles, I guess on tranquillity someone is supposed to come along and stop you I just hope that happens more often than it does now.