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Weird thinking or something we can see with the new Bounty system?

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Vannilator
MediaCataclysm
#1 - 2012-11-22 12:25:44 UTC
Just read the latest devblog about the bounty system and i thought of a way it could possibly be exploited once again.

My theory is that for instance people will set up sales for a "shuttle" and sell them for 100M or more. (thus raising the market value)

This way they blow up their shuttle and decrease the bounty by 20% (20M with the above example) if they do it in that specific region (where they set a high price for a specific ship)?

Would this be a way that works? Or is this something the payouts won't be based upon?
I'm not sure since the only info i find in the blog is: "The 20% payout is based on the loss value of the kill report"


Kind Regards,

Vannilator
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#2 - 2012-11-22 13:02:25 UTC
I"m fairly certain bounties will be calculated using a similar if not the same system as insurance.

What this means (If i'm right here) is that the payout will be based on the mineral values of said ship. If placing sell orders at unusually high prices can influence the average that the game calculates, it would take a whole lot of tritanium to influence the value enough to inflate the price of a shuttle to levels where it can be profitable to collect bounties in this manner.

I would also assume that if this were possible people would already be doing this with insurance.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2012-11-22 13:09:53 UTC
Pricing goes on the same scale as they use for calculating the worth of your cargo. OPs idea wont work.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-11-22 13:11:30 UTC
They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players.
Aziesta
Binal Extensions
Xagenic Freymvork
#5 - 2012-11-22 13:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Aziesta
They said bounty pay-out is based on the ingame lossmail price. This in turn is calculated using the game-wide average price for the ship/modules (over a 3 month period I believe). So it is in effect impossible to game the system as much as you describe.

Something similar happened when FW LP payouts based on value were first introduced. But CCP fixed that, so they are well aware of the possibilities, and have plugged the holes that used to exist.

Edit
Apparently I type slowly. What the people above me said.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#6 - 2012-11-22 13:13:32 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players.


This is our method.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents
Vannilator
MediaCataclysm
#7 - 2012-11-22 13:14:58 UTC
Thanks for the input; i was thinking along the wrong lines then.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-11-22 13:15:02 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players.
Besides this, there's no way you'd be able to sell enough shuttles on the market to raise the price so high. The FW "exploit" was done with items so undesirable they were rarely traded, I remember?
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#9 - 2012-11-22 13:22:54 UTC
Vannilator wrote:
Just read the latest devblog about the bounty system and i thought of a way it could possibly be exploited once again.

My theory is that for instance people will set up sales for a "shuttle" and sell them for 100M or more. (thus raising the market value)

This way they blow up their shuttle and decrease the bounty by 20% (20M with the above example) if they do it in that specific region (where they set a high price for a specific ship)?

Would this be a way that works? Or is this something the payouts won't be based upon?
I'm not sure since the only info i find in the blog is: "The 20% payout is based on the loss value of the kill report"


Kind Regards,

Vannilator


This has been accounted for. It works the same way the Faction Warfare Loyalty points payout works, which means its fixed to not take into account sudden uncharacteristic changes in market fluctuation. No exploit anymore.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-11-22 13:31:19 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players.


This is our method.


You were looking for any flimsy excuse to spread that around, weren't you?

Also my reenactment of that expression >>> Straight
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#11 - 2012-11-22 14:17:05 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players.


This is our method.

So has there been a dev blog that defined what forms of market manipulation were still acceptable?

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Doddy
Excidium.
#12 - 2012-11-22 14:22:34 UTC
Vannilator wrote:
Just read the latest devblog about the bounty system and i thought of a way it could possibly be exploited once again.

My theory is that for instance people will set up sales for a "shuttle" and sell them for 100M or more. (thus raising the market value)

This way they blow up their shuttle and decrease the bounty by 20% (20M with the above example) if they do it in that specific region (where they set a high price for a specific ship)?

Would this be a way that works? Or is this something the payouts won't be based upon?
I'm not sure since the only info i find in the blog is: "The 20% payout is based on the loss value of the kill report"


Kind Regards,

Vannilator


Have you any idea how hard it would be to keep shuttle prices at 100 mil across eve? You are right though in that it is exploitable, fortunately goons already showed it to ccp through FW and they have changed it.
Merouk Baas
#13 - 2012-11-22 15:33:26 UTC
Vannilator wrote:
My theory is that for instance people will set up sales for a "shuttle" and sell them for 100M or more. (thus raising the market value)


Think about that for a second.

There are millions of shuttles on the market, and lots of them are being bought and sold at the regular price. So if someone wants to pong a shuttle between two alts at the price of 100M they'll have to do it a lot in order to get even a bump in the overall market average.

But they pay market taxes for each transaction, and the taxes for a 100M transaction are high, even with the market skills trained. If you have to do it "a lot" pretty soon you're looking at tens, hundreds of millions ISK in tax loss.

They'll lose more than they can scam off the bounty system when they try to manipulate the market.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#14 - 2012-11-22 15:47:20 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players.

iirc they were going to decrease the poll time for average prices. It's still easily manipulable but will take a LOT more money to do. So it's 'fixed' for the poors.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-11-22 15:53:16 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players.


This is our method.


Are you attempting to set new policy for CCP in that market manipulation is now against the EULA?

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#16 - 2012-11-22 15:55:27 UTC
Aryth wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players.


This is our method.


Are you attempting to set new policy for CCP in that market manipulation is now against the EULA?


Look more closely.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#17 - 2012-11-22 16:04:17 UTC
Poor Guard, all the tall Devs pick on him and take his lunch money.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-11-22 16:19:16 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Aryth wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players.


This is our method.


Are you attempting to set new policy for CCP in that market manipulation is now against the EULA?


Look more closely.


Looking closer does not change anything. Either he is saying that manipulating item prices is against the EULA, or he was making a snarky reply.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-11-22 16:24:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Destination SkillQueue
Aryth wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Aryth wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players.


This is our method.


Are you attempting to set new policy for CCP in that market manipulation is now against the EULA?


Look more closely.


Looking closer does not change anything. Either he is saying that manipulating item prices is against the EULA, or he was making a snarky reply.


He was attemping to make a joke(as in a humorous response) by implying the creepy staring of CCP Guard is the secret CCP method of deterring exploitation of the mechanic.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-11-22 16:37:27 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


Looking closer does not change anything. Either he is saying that manipulating item prices is against the EULA, or he was making a snarky reply.


He was attemping to make a joke(as in a humorous response) by implying the creepy staring of CCP Guard is the secret CCP method of deterring exploitation of the mechanic.


Which is why I asked for clarification. Posts like that tend to get referenced and used far beyond their original intention. Especially given that CCP tried to put this genie back in the bottle once with a temporary "don't do this until we fix" statement once before.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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