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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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Wrong approach

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Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#1 - 2012-11-21 11:51:31 UTC
I think this kind of layout of the tournament should be left for the AT. The EVE online E-sport should be imo a bit different.
- Should be as accessible for veterans as for the new inhabitants of New Eden.
- Should be more dynamical
- Should be practiced in everyday life around New Eden

I was already preaching about this idea so i wont write new walls of text, instead i am just gonna link u the original thread.

In short it is about frigates. Teams of 5 players battling other teams in t1 frigates. Now when the tiercide is done it would add a lot more complexity in those fights. And it is about a League. A league which would last trough the year and at the end of it champions would be crowned.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
tsukubasteve
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-11-21 12:39:54 UTC
Yes because this tournament was bursting at the seems with people trying to get in.

This tournament was mroe accessible than AT; it wasn't THAT expensive to getin really. Considering there 5 spots left it was just peoples misconceptions that it would be overly expensive to getin.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#3 - 2012-11-21 12:48:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
tsukubasteve wrote:
Yes because this tournament was bursting at the seems with people trying to get in.

This tournament was mroe accessible than AT; it wasn't THAT expensive to getin really. Considering there 5 spots left it was just peoples misconceptions that it would be overly expensive to getin.


It is not just about the fee for partecipation. I am speaking about an e-sport that will attract not only EVE vets but new ppl, professional teams that like the idea of an spaceship e-sport. If u bring it at the T1 frigates only level, it will be so much more accessible for everyone, skill and isk wise.

And at least 90% of EVE population agree that watching and flying frigates are one of the most fun things to do in EVE, and will be especialyl now after the tiercide.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Seldarine
Resolute Supremacy
#4 - 2012-11-21 12:53:13 UTC
This tournament is the first of its kind.

The original alliance tournaments were also not so popular, but then after time, as they became more familiar, they increased in popularity dramatically.

I believe the same will happen with these tournaments, and I am sure CCP will have learned many lessons and ideas about how to make them even more accessible and popular in the future.
tofucake prime
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#5 - 2012-11-21 14:40:45 UTC
The T1 frigates competition, with a year-round league, already exists.

It's called Red vs Blue

hf
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2012-11-21 14:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
tofucake prime wrote:
The T1 frigates competition, with a year-round league, already exists.

It's called Red vs Blue

hf


Exactly, for the same reason RvB is so much popular the layout i proposed would surely be fun for everyone and more accessible.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#7 - 2012-11-21 15:31:36 UTC
I personally dread the thought of watching frigate vs frigate fights. Talk about bullshit rubbish that sucks.
TinkerHell
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#8 - 2012-11-21 21:54:58 UTC
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
I personally dread the thought of watching frigate vs frigate fights. Talk about bullshit rubbish that sucks.



This.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2012-11-21 22:30:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
RvB
FW
Thusker event and other events like
Black rifter club (and the frigate dueling in molden heat)
Most of solo PvP
Low SP demand
Low isk demand

All of this in most part are influenced by frigates.

And anyway in this tournament the most interesting parts are the frigates and their actions.

If we want the tournaments to attract exterior professional teams and players, than frigates are the way
If we want to keep it btw EVE online vets and having not entirely filled spots for the tournament than this layout is ok.

When we talk about tournaments, every serious player will want more of em during the year. There will be different sponsor who d give some money for the tournament. So what do u guys think how many teams would be able to get ready for few more tournaments per year with this layout?

I bet not that many teams and there will be always the same teams applying. Yeah really interesting.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#10 - 2012-11-22 09:20:11 UTC
Th reason the frigates are interesting is because there is bigger ships supporting them, without those ships it would be boooorriinng..
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#11 - 2012-11-22 10:11:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
Th reason the frigates are interesting is because there is bigger ships supporting them, without those ships it would be boooorriinng..



Exactly, the frigates do the fun part, catching, ccing, dpsing and than we watch 5 min of 2 bigger ship staying on 0km and pounding each other. Really fun.

This layout would stay for the AT ofc cos it is suitable for the alliance and it is once a year. But for an e-sport it really needs to be lot more accessible as for the citizens of New Eden as for the potential citizens.
And more dynamic and lot more fun to watch. The frigates especially after the tiercide can offer that more than anything else.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch
Evasive Maneuvering.
#12 - 2012-11-22 10:32:42 UTC
The commentators already have trouble keeping up with developments in the arena ("Oh, and the Oneiros just exploded"). With frigates things are going to happen much faster than can be comprehended, much less commented on.
CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
#13 - 2012-11-22 10:33:57 UTC
You bring up a lot of good points, Zloco.

Our goal, as an EVE Tournament team, will be to incorporate more 'flash' tournaments which are single weekend events focusing on bringing more people into the tournament system and rewarding them accordingly.

Soundwave, Alice, Fozzie, Dolan, Veritas, Sreegs and I met yesterday and discussed this briefly but we are hoping to flesh this out more over the coming months. Naturally, we will put up a blog and lots of info about this when we finalize more details.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2012-11-22 10:48:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
Faffywaffy wrote:
The commentators already have trouble keeping up with developments in the arena ("Oh, and the Oneiros just exploded"). With frigates things are going to happen much faster than can be comprehended, much less commented on.


Ofc but i wldnt say that it cant be done, i mean SC is also quite fast and u got hundreds of units. And ppl still report it quite good. EVE would need specialized commentators who d in time become experienced.
Prolly matches will be over quite fast. Than best of 3 type matches can be used (win 2 matches over 3 possible). If the length of the tournament needs to be longer.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2012-11-22 11:00:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
CCP Navigator wrote:
You bring up a lot of good points, Zloco.

Our goal, as an EVE Tournament team, will be to incorporate more 'flash' tournaments which are single weekend events focusing on bringing more people into the tournament system and rewarding them accordingly.

Soundwave, Alice, Fozzie, Dolan, Veritas, Sreegs and I met yesterday and discussed this briefly but we are hoping to flesh this out more over the coming months. Naturally, we will put up a blog and lots of info about this when we finalize more details.


I red a lot of blogs about this topic. And everyone agrees that the main catalyst is money. Ppl will come in flock to win a prize if it is substantial enough. But for them to participate, the tournament needs to be as accessible as it can be, SP and isk wise.

Serious professionals will come in teams and to participate in actual tournament layout they d need 1-2 years to specialize and have a competitive team.

And i for sure know that this tournament would have 4 more teams just from the circles i hang around if the tournament was about frigates.

Also why 5v5 ppl?
- Easier to make a team
- Easier to have more quality in teams
- And most important, prizes are divided btw less ppl.

SC 1v1
WC III 1v1
WoW 3v3
LoL 5v5
DOTA2 5v5
CS 5v5

One more important thing. Imagine this layout is kept and we have 3, 4, 5 tournaments in a year or even more. The AT which is a really good tradition would be come so generic. If we transit to the frig layout than the AT would retain its flavor.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Seldarine
Resolute Supremacy
#16 - 2012-11-22 11:45:28 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
CCP Navigator wrote:
You bring up a lot of good points, Zloco.

Our goal, as an EVE Tournament team, will be to incorporate more 'flash' tournaments which are single weekend events focusing on bringing more people into the tournament system and rewarding them accordingly.

Soundwave, Alice, Fozzie, Dolan, Veritas, Sreegs and I met yesterday and discussed this briefly but we are hoping to flesh this out more over the coming months. Naturally, we will put up a blog and lots of info about this when we finalize more details.


I red a lot of blogs about this topic. And everyone agrees that the main catalyst is money. Ppl will come in flock to win a prize if it is substantial enough. But for them to participate, the tournament needs to be as accessible as it can be, SP and isk wise.

Serious professionals will come in teams and to participate in actual tournament layout they d need 1-2 years to specialize and have a competitive team.

And i for sure know that this tournament would have 4 more teams just from the circles i hang around if the tournament was about frigates.

Also why 5v5 ppl?
- Easier to make a team
- Easier to have more quality in teams
- And most important, prizes are divided btw less ppl.

SC 1v1
WC III 1v1
WoW 3v3
LoL 5v5
DOTA2 5v5
CS 5v5

One more important thing. Imagine this layout is kept and we have 3, 4, 5 tournaments in a year or even more. The AT which is a really good tradition would be come so generic. If we transit to the frig layout than the AT would retain its flavor.


I am not sure that trying to make Eve tournaments in line with other games is the best or right thing to do. Personally I have had alot of success in the WoT professional ESL league, my team has won quite a bit of real cash, but it just gets boring, there is not enough to engage my competitive mind. It is just not eve.

Yes, Eve has many of the things that you point out as problems, however they are the exact reason that so many players like me just absolutely love Eve tournaments and the game of Eve. Yes they are hard to prep for, yes they require a massive amount of effort, yes they require an in-depth knowledge of the game plus skill-points that only years of play can offer. But in my opinion that's why eve is the game we all play and love, the best things Eve have to offer are the most exclusive, and the hardest. That is why people like me keep playing after 10 years, there is no End Game.

In my opinion viewers of the tournament want to see the best eve has to offer battle it out under adverse conditions, I do not believe they want to see a level playing field where anyone can quickly put in a team, that would just remove the essence of what makes Eve tournaments so special. For me, that is just not what Eve is about at all.
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#17 - 2012-11-22 11:53:38 UTC
What seld says above completely shuts this thread down :)

EVE is hard, and thats what makes it awesome.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#18 - 2012-11-22 12:15:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
What seld says above completely shuts this thread down :)

EVE is hard, and thats what makes it awesome.


Frigates are a major component of EVE. They are harsh and flown, killed much more than anything else. And they are harder to fly effectively than any other class. They are faster, got faster cycles which involves faster thinking and reflexes. So your point was?

Leave the AT event to meet Seld's expectations and lets make an e-sport for EVE. An e-sport within Sandbox rules just a bit more accessible, dynamic, interesting.

Dont tell me Suddenly are afraid of more competition

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Seldarine
Resolute Supremacy
#19 - 2012-11-22 12:38:09 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
What seld says above completely shuts this thread down :)

EVE is hard, and thats what makes it awesome.


Frigates are a major component of EVE. They are harsh and flown, killed much more than anything else. And they are harder to fly effectively than any other class. They are faster, got faster cycles which involves faster thinking and reflexes. So your point was?

Leave the AT event to meet Seld's expectations and lets make an e-sport for EVE. An e-sport within Sandbox rules just a bit more accessible, dynamic, interesting.

Dont tell me Suddenly are afraid of more competition


I believe that CCP are working on tools that will allow players to more effectively host their own tournaments. Already, Eve Radio host tournaments of their own like you have described, with ships such as frigates and destroyers. So these things already exist and I am sure will be more frequent in the future, maybe even a league as you describe, that would be fantastic. The niche that you are describing I feel can be adequately filled by player created tournaments in the future.

For the big prize tournaments such as AT and to a slightly lesser extent this current NEO, well it is only fair in my opinion that for a big prize there should be a big effort involved to compete for it.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#20 - 2012-11-22 12:48:21 UTC
Seldarine wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
What seld says above completely shuts this thread down :)

EVE is hard, and thats what makes it awesome.


Frigates are a major component of EVE. They are harsh and flown, killed much more than anything else. And they are harder to fly effectively than any other class. They are faster, got faster cycles which involves faster thinking and reflexes. So your point was?

Leave the AT event to meet Seld's expectations and lets make an e-sport for EVE. An e-sport within Sandbox rules just a bit more accessible, dynamic, interesting.

Dont tell me Suddenly are afraid of more competition


I believe that CCP are working on tools that will allow players to more effectively host their own tournaments. Already, Eve Radio host tournaments of their own like you have described, with ships such as frigates and destroyers. So these things already exist and I am sure will be more frequent in the future, maybe even a league as you describe, that would be fantastic. The niche that you are describing I feel can be adequately filled by player created tournaments in the future.

For the big prize tournaments such as AT and to a slightly lesser extent this current NEO, well it is only fair in my opinion that for a big prize there should be a big effort involved to compete for it.


I agree with u, for the big prize tournaments this layout is perfect. But i am not speaking about stand alone tournaments, i am speaking about making an e-sport within our sandbox. Whole year competitions (qualifications) which d lead to the final tournament. Like any other competition out there be it "e" or not.

Actual layout appeals for just so few. I d really like it to be at least tried few times to see the reactions.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.