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How to calculate Rate of Fire?

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Gurran Wecri
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-11-22 01:50:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Gurran Wecri
Then contact CCP and tell them to rename Rate of Fire to Cycle Time. Until CCP calls it Cycle Time I will call it Rate of Fire.

Sincerely, Patrick Thomas (Timberwolf) Timberwolf Programmers Owner & Founder
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#22 - 2012-11-22 02:20:23 UTC
Gurran Wecri wrote:
Then contact CCP and tell them to rename Rate of Fire to Cycle Time, that's when I will start saying Cycle Time. Until it says Cycle Time I will call it Rate of Fire.

Calling them both "rate of fire" is sufficient since the "X per second" or "Y seconds" provides enough context, but the distinction is important to know for maths because some skills say "reduces cycle time" (e.g. Projected ECM) while others say "increases rate of fire" (e.g. Rapid Firing), and still others "increase cycle time" (e.g. Afterburner). Knowing the differences between these is essential to getting the right end values.

ISD LackOfFaith

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Gurran Wecri
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-11-22 02:55:48 UTC
I understand the difference between real life ROF and Cycle Time.

Sincerely, Patrick Thomas (Timberwolf) Timberwolf Programmers Owner & Founder
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#24 - 2012-11-22 03:04:26 UTC
Gurran Wecri wrote:
I understand the difference between real life ROF and Cycle Time.


Me too.

I learn to dodge questions at a RoF based on her cycle time.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-11-22 03:09:08 UTC
rclick, show info, read rate of fire stat.
i find that method usually works the best.

There is no Bob.

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Gurran Wecri
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-11-22 03:09:17 UTC
My original question still stands. What should my equation be?

B4 = Base ROF
B41 = Rapid Firing Level
B42 = Gunnery Level
F37 = Module Modifier in percentage

Sincerely, Patrick Thomas (Timberwolf) Timberwolf Programmers Owner & Founder
Gurran Wecri
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-11-22 03:12:57 UTC
1. I don't have the gun
2. I don't have the crystals

I am making this to compare crystals. I am making a fit on EVEHQ. I cannot figure out how to modify what it sees my skills as so I am having to make a excel doc to figure out what crystal to use with a T2 gun that I will be getting when I have the skill.

Sincerely, Patrick Thomas (Timberwolf) Timberwolf Programmers Owner & Founder
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#28 - 2012-11-22 03:51:37 UTC
Gurran Wecri wrote:
My original question still stands. What should my equation be?

My crack at it. I probably forgot something or screwed something up, so feel free to correct me.

For a sanity check, I plugged in Rapid Firing V, Gunnery V, and a Heat Sink II (10.5% RoF bonus). The result was a 35.26% reduction in cycle time, which sounds reasonable.

ISD LackOfFaith

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stoicfaux
#29 - 2012-11-22 04:38:02 UTC
Gurran Wecri wrote:
My original question still stands. What should my equation be?

B4 = Base ROF
B41 = Rapid Firing Level
B42 = Gunnery Level
F37 = Module Modifier in percentage


cycle_time = B4 * ( B41 * B42 * F37) where
B41 = 1 - skill_level * .04
B42 = 1 - skill_level * .02
F37 = 1 - module_mod

Tachyon IIs have a 12.5s cycle time. With all Vs and a Heat Sink II (10.5% rof bonus):

12.5 * (1-5*.02) * (1-5*.04) * (1-.105) =
12.5 * (.9) * (.8) * (.895) =
8.055s cycle time

which is 1/8.055 = 0.124s rate of fire.

On a side note, you get can get module stacking penalties here: http://wiki.eve-id.net/Stacking



Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Gurran Wecri
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-11-22 04:46:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Gurran Wecri
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Gurran Wecri wrote:
My original question still stands. What should my equation be?

My crack at it. I probably forgot something or screwed something up, so feel free to correct me.

For a sanity check, I plugged in Rapid Firing V, Gunnery V, and a Heat Sink II (10.5% RoF bonus). The result was a 35.26% reduction in cycle time, which sounds reasonable.


Your equation makes it go higher the higher the skill

Sincerely, Patrick Thomas (Timberwolf) Timberwolf Programmers Owner & Founder
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-11-22 05:08:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
In one line:

(G-50)(F-25)(H-100)(M-100) × 8 × 10^-8 × B

B is the module's base duration, G is your gunnery level, F is your rapid firing, H is RoF percentage bonuses from hardwirings and M is RoF bonuses from modules and rigs, after stacking penalties.

Skills are not stacking penalized; modules and rigs are.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#32 - 2012-11-22 05:15:47 UTC
Gurran Wecri wrote:
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Gurran Wecri wrote:
My original question still stands. What should my equation be?

My crack at it. I probably forgot something or screwed something up, so feel free to correct me.

For a sanity check, I plugged in Rapid Firing V, Gunnery V, and a Heat Sink II (10.5% RoF bonus). The result was a 35.26% reduction in cycle time, which sounds reasonable.


Your equation makes it go higher the higher the skill

The result of that is a negative percent corresponding to how much the cycle time decreases.

I should note that I assumed M to be a >100% number. In other words: 110.5% for Heat Sink II. My bad for the confusion.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

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Gurran Wecri
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-11-22 05:56:38 UTC
The hell with this....

Sincerely, Patrick Thomas (Timberwolf) Timberwolf Programmers Owner & Founder
Merouk Baas
#34 - 2012-11-22 05:59:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Merouk Baas
Gurran Wecri wrote:
Just out curiousity why train rapid firing if it makes your ROF go up?


Read the Rapid Fire skill description in the Evelopedia. The bonus listed in the details isn't 4%, it is -4% (negative 4%). It's CCP's way of saying it's actually a penalty to what they call "ROF", it decreases the cycle time and increases the frequency.

Mentally converting between percentages and multiplication factors:

6% bonus is B * 1.06
12% bonus is B * 1.12
130% bonus is B * 2.3
200% bonus is B * 3

-6% "bonus" or 6% penalty is B * 0.96
-12% "bonus" or 12% penalty is B * 0.88
-50% "bonus" or 50% penalty is B * 0.50
-99% "bonus" or 99% penalty is B * 0.01
100% penalty is 0

So your equation should be:

new ROF = B4 * (1 - 0.04 * B41) (1 - 0.02 * B42) (1 - F37/100) (1 - implants/100), which is the same as:

Andski wrote:
B4*(B41-25)*(B42-50)*(H-100)*(F37-100)*8/100000000

H = hardwirings = implants
He's reversed the signs on all 4 parentheses (it should be "100 - F37" for example), but because there are 4 parentheses the 4 reversed signs cancel each other out in pairs. You only had 3 parentheses because you forgot implants, so reversing the signs caused a negative result.

EDIT: Always use the actual listed stats of a skill / module / implant in your calculations, rather than the description, because CCP sucks at descriptions. The effect is "-4%", not "a 4% bonus to ROF."
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-11-22 06:10:14 UTC
This is such a pointless discussion...
EFT, Pyfa, EVE HQ, in game.... take your pick, all of these will tell you the ROF of any gun instantly.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#36 - 2012-11-22 06:12:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Rapid Firing REDUCES the cycle time 4% per level, so your turret fires more frequently (more rapidly).

Gunnery REDUCES the cycle time 2% per level, so your turret fires more frequently (more rapidly).

Skill Modified Cycle Time = Base Cycle Time * (1 - Rate of Fire Skill Level * 4%) * (1 - Gunnery Skill Level * 2%)

Rapid Firing is one of many skills with a really bad info description.
Merouk Baas
#37 - 2012-11-22 06:13:19 UTC
It's not about the ROF, dammit! The man wants to create his own spreadsheet. It's the principle of the thing.
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