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Pulling the Plug on WiS

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Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#1 - 2012-11-22 01:40:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
For those of you interested in WiS content, like myself, you will be disheartened to find out that it seems CCP have pulled the plug on using Carbon as the engine for the World of Darkness game.

http://www.wodnews.net/Home/tabid/41/Article/750/exclusive-incarnacarbon-forked-between-eve-and-wod-mmo.aspx

Now, many of you will probably be thinking "What does that have to do with WiS?" Well, for a long time we had been under the impression that the World of Darkness team were developing gameplay using the Carbon engine, which meant animations, characters, environments etc would be getting worked on away from Eve so that eventually when they were better developed and would be able to get generalised to Eve to give us WiS content.

Because they have stopped using Carbon, it means no one is working on it. The Eve Avatar team have been re-assigned to making UI changes a while ago which means that now NO ONE at CCP is working on anything resembling WiS. It has been completely and utterly dropped.

Isn't this now the second engine you've completely dropped? Am I the only person who is more than a little pissed off about this?

Edit:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Just to answer a couple of points:

  • Team Avatar doesn't exist anymore. As per the thread linked earlier our prototype has been shelved for the time being. Please read both my post and the one from CCP Unifex for the full picture on what's happening with WIS development at the moment. The team members are off working on a whole bunch of stuff from the launcher, through to new game features.
  • WoD is definitely still in development and development is split off from EVE so that they can concentrate on their game and making it awesome.

Confirmed.

Important Response:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Hi all and thanks for this thread.

I was part of Team Avatar (or Team Absent as we seem to be now known as) and personally, reading through every page has been a bit of a rollercoaster to be honest. From the highs of the continued demand for WiS and it's lack of presence, to the lows of people still tagging it with 'barbie' and not seeing the overall potential of WiS.

Please don't think that all the positive feedback for WiS in this thread is going un-noticed. The sheer length of it is obvious enough to show people's continued interest.

Firstly, let me sum up a few things,

1. Team Avatar were formed to prototype 'meaningful' WiS gameplay.
That did not mean a /dance emote.
Our prototype focused around pve and pvp combat and exploration within 'Sites'.
The feedback from internal playtesting was immensely positive and we could all see it tying in supremely well with the current EvE ecology. Meaning that our WiS gameplay benefited the in-flight game and vice-versa. They should not be separate.
We showed the prototype at the last fanfest and to the CSM and got positive reactions from both groups of observers.
So the general direction we were going in was sound. We had faith in it but most importantly, it appeared that you did as well.

2. Team Avatar were disbanded.
The prototyping was finished, revealed company wide and received much praise.
A decision was made to 'shelve' WiS related gameplay for the foreseeable future due to technology requirements and a change in development focus.

3. The members of Team Avatar were moved onto other teams/projects.
All members of Team Avatar are currently on other teams working away on various things, either Retribution based and not.


Where we stand right now is that we have a successful idea for WiS, a detailed pre-production plan and the right people to implement it properly into EvE.
As I mentioned earlier, WiS is "shelved", not, and I re-iterate, not, completely and utterly abandoned to a dark depth that only Cthulhu could descend to.
I can't obviously speak for the entirety of the company, but I believe the overall consensus is that we, as devs want WiS to be out there and blowing all your minds right now.
Some things take priority though, and some things take time.. and yes I know it's frustrating to continue waiting, but believe me when I say it, but it's also frustrating to work on something so obviously awesome to not see it come out as a fully fledged feature at the end of it.

Anyway, I hope that clears some things up for you and apologies for the length.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that you get a +1 from me for the kickstarter idea, Big smile

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2 - 2012-11-22 01:46:17 UTC
A fork is not the same as pulling the plug, the carbon engine was always going to differ between the games to a certain extent anyway, the games differ so much in scope and model requirements that it was guaranteed.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Holy One
Privat Party
#3 - 2012-11-22 01:47:10 UTC
They should have stuck with unreal or w/e torfi tech demo'd in 2009/10 that looked close to actually working and being useful and was suddenly abandoned for some in-house stuff they spent ~12m dollars on to bring us one room and a door ..

:)
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#4 - 2012-11-22 01:48:22 UTC
Ah, good. Now if they can remove it entirely from the client, you'll make my week.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#5 - 2012-11-22 01:49:35 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
A fork is not the same as pulling the plug, the carbon engine was always going to differ between the games to a certain extent anyway, the games differ so much in scope and model requirements that it was guaranteed.


Yes, but if its a big fork, it will become very difficult to get content transferred from one game to the other.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Rengerel en Distel
#6 - 2012-11-22 01:50:24 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2023393#post2023393

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#7 - 2012-11-22 01:55:07 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
A fork is not the same as pulling the plug, the carbon engine was always going to differ between the games to a certain extent anyway, the games differ so much in scope and model requirements that it was guaranteed.


Yes, but if its a big fork, it will become very difficult to get content transferred from one game to the other.


I think the point of that little news tidbit is that they are abandoning the concept of them ever sharing the data and updates and just let them persist independently

Incarna is far from dead and so is the Avatar team. did you not see the massive thread they had about their in-house prototypes and play testing regarding out of ship exploration?

The Drake is a Lie
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-11-22 02:02:06 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
Ah, good. Now if they can remove it entirely from the client, you'll make my week.

QFT

CCP has no sense of humour.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#9 - 2012-11-22 02:04:01 UTC
Xercodo wrote:

Incarna is far from dead and so is the Avatar team. did you not see the massive thread they had about their in-house prototypes and play testing regarding out of ship exploration?


When I find the quote from that thread that says the Avatar team have been re-deployed into working on the UI, I'll post it up. In brief though, yes I am aware of the thread. You will see I have been posting in it relatively frequently.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-11-22 02:06:12 UTC
Best news I've heard all year.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#11 - 2012-11-22 02:10:02 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Xercodo wrote:

Incarna is far from dead and so is the Avatar team. did you not see the massive thread they had about their in-house prototypes and play testing regarding out of ship exploration?


When I find the quote from that thread that says the Avatar team have been re-deployed into working on the UI, I'll post it up. In brief though, yes I am aware of the thread. You will see I have been posting in it relatively frequently.


All of the dev posts in said thread so far

The Drake is a Lie
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#12 - 2012-11-22 02:23:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Xercodo wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Xercodo wrote:

Incarna is far from dead and so is the Avatar team. did you not see the massive thread they had about their in-house prototypes and play testing regarding out of ship exploration?


When I find the quote from that thread that says the Avatar team have been re-deployed into working on the UI, I'll post it up. In brief though, yes I am aware of the thread. You will see I have been posting in it relatively frequently.


All of the dev posts in said thread so far


CCP Unifex wrote:


So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. It’s a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it won’t mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.


You missed one. The Avatar team are not working on Avatar gameplay.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#13 - 2012-11-22 02:23:32 UTC
Well Star Citizen it is, then.

When that lands in 2 years this game will become a ghost town, so everyone enjoy the population while you can.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#14 - 2012-11-22 02:31:36 UTC
But WoD will never be developed, it was already clear one years ago after the incarna fail and CCP resource relocation. The fact they splitting the avatar technology IMO means they want to focus this developement for EvE/Dust only, more efficiently.
Ghazu
#15 - 2012-11-22 02:32:15 UTC
The UI is done and the patch is coming in 2 weeks what is your issue?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#16 - 2012-11-22 02:33:08 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
But WoD will never be developed,


So.. why exactly are they paying a whole team with their own office? If they're not going to develop it?

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#17 - 2012-11-22 02:36:14 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Well Star Citizen it is, then.

When that lands in 2 years this game will become a ghost town, so everyone enjoy the population while you can.


is still in found colelcting stage, will requires YEARS to produce some playable demo.
And is not even planed as MMORPG, is more like diablo, wher eyou play in insanced room with few friends.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#18 - 2012-11-22 02:38:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
Arduemont wrote:


You missed one. The Avatar team are not working on Avatar gameplay.


You make it sound like Team Avatar isn't ever coming back to WiS lol

They aren't working o nit directly now but I imagine they're responsible for getting us something like the sleeve tattoos they've been talking about. And they're only bring brought away from their prototypes because their man hours are better spent on the current expansion.

Once that's over they'll likely jump back into implementing more ideas and starting to make something in Carbon. Gotta have something truly epic to reveal at EVE's 10th anniversary Fanfest right? :D

Still not concerned that WiS is dying off in anyway yet.

The Drake is a Lie
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#19 - 2012-11-22 02:40:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Xercodo wrote:

You make it sound like Team Avatar isn't ever coming back to WiS lol

That's not really what I meant. However, they haven't had anyone working on it for some time now. The sleeve tattoos have been a long time coming. So I'm not really sure how that's going.
Xercodo wrote:
something truly epic to reveal at EVE's 10th anniversary Fanfest right? :D.

We can only hope.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#20 - 2012-11-22 02:43:15 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Well Star Citizen it is, then.

When that lands in 2 years this game will become a ghost town, so everyone enjoy the population while you can.

Star Citizen is just going to come out and be mediocre

Just be happy with Eve cause it's the best video game ever created
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