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Dev Blog: Bounties, Kill Rights, New Modules and War in Retribution

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Harbingour
EVE Corporation 690846961
#101 - 2012-11-21 21:22:36 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde a Space rich CSM'er wrote:

Base cost for wars remain the same, the per character just scales earlier, faster, and hits the same cap sooner. Why scaling didn't happen at 50 before there really wasnt a good reason for, same thing with a character price cap that only 2 or 3 mega alliances hit. CCP's pretty much using the numbers I suggested, so if you got a problem with it blame me.


The possibility of this scaling IMHO stifles war decc's by making them too high a barrier is my issue with it. Now it appears that the Goons & other large NULL SEC alliances are rarely being decc'd because of it. Any stats on if the # of war decc's has increased; also also seperately has the ISK sink decreased because possibly people can't afford wardecc's?

Looks to me as if this scaling will most help many of those Alliances whom sit on the CSM 
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2012-11-21 21:27:44 UTC
Wonderful work!!! wonderful work!!! Can't wait to see it on TQ!!!!!

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Abramul
Canadian Forces Corp
United 4 Nations
#103 - 2012-11-21 21:30:48 UTC
Is it seen as problematic that someone could 'pretreat' a gank ship to collect their own bounty on death? (shoot and remote repair for long enough that you're guaranteed top damage, repeat every 15 minutes)

With a 20% cap, I can't see it being too much of a problem, but I could see people using this to get rebates on gank ships, putting you in a situation where bounties are still rewards to the bountied person, although less so than before.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#104 - 2012-11-21 21:32:47 UTC
The war dec fee should only be based on characters actively training a skill. Corps and alliances use alts to bloat the war dec fee to evade a possible war dec. Now this tactic will become more effective.

Really would like CCP to address this. How about it CCP? CSM??
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#105 - 2012-11-21 21:47:37 UTC
Most interested in the Battle Noctis Twisted
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#106 - 2012-11-21 21:59:39 UTC
This how the kill right system you guys came up with will be gamed to regulate it back to be nothing again, well almost:

So I violence some dudes ship and now he has a kill right on me. Side question if he shoots back and I still kill him does that mean he does NOT have kill rights on me like the way it works now? Anyways, so if he is some poor guy that can't cash in the kill rights he has on me he can let others do it for him, cool.

If he sets the price too low to get the kill rights I will simply snatch it with an alt and pop myself in a noob ship. So he has to set the price much higher to keep me from buying it. All I will do is fly ships that are 'not worth buying the kill rights to cash in'. And as long as I'm not hanging out in high sec the whole time, I only have to avoid it for a month. Even in low sec kill rights are pointless because most of the pirates in there who get kill rights on them are already an outlaw, so what is the point?

You really need to remove the expiration date on kill rights to have any real effect on cashing them in. Even have the kill right only expire when enough damage in ISK has been done to match the ISK damage done that generated the kill right in the fist place.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#107 - 2012-11-21 22:21:23 UTC
Louis deGuerre wrote:
Most interested in the Battle Noctis Twisted

I already did that. Smart bomb fit. I wanted to make it interesting so I did it in high sec and made a point to not do it in a way where I would die to concord. Killed a destroyer iirc. Twisted
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#108 - 2012-11-21 22:32:23 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
The war dec fee should only be based on characters actively training a skill. Corps and alliances use alts to bloat the war dec fee to evade a possible war dec. Now this tactic will become more effective.


+1 to this.
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#109 - 2012-11-21 22:35:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Cordo Draken
Well, it all sounds good except the reduced number of members for War Increase costs. I still think this is bad in general and limits new upcoming PvP corps. While some fixes have & will help solve some issues ( I truly think this "fix" was purely targeted to resolve the Dec Shield Impact), you guys are still missing the true resolution to War mechanics. With all the Ideas that have been out there, you've still not grasped it yet. Mainly giving cause for defenders to take action... Incentive if you will... A goal. Both sides should have objectives that are possible to swing the war. At any rate, good stuff, we know the rest will come together with time. Keep up the good work!

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#110 - 2012-11-21 22:45:00 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
This how the kill right system you guys came up with will be gamed to regulate it back to be nothing again, well almost:

So I violence some dudes ship and now he has a kill right on me. Side question if he shoots back and I still kill him does that mean he does NOT have kill rights on me like the way it works now? Anyways, so if he is some poor guy that can't cash in the kill rights he has on me he can let others do it for him, cool.

If he sets the price too low to get the kill rights I will simply snatch it with an alt and pop myself in a noob ship. So he has to set the price much higher to keep me from buying it. All I will do is fly ships that are 'not worth buying the kill rights to cash in'. And as long as I'm not hanging out in high sec the whole time, I only have to avoid it for a month. Even in low sec kill rights are pointless because most of the pirates in there who get kill rights on them are already an outlaw, so what is the point?

You really need to remove the expiration date on kill rights to have any real effect on cashing them in. Even have the kill right only expire when enough damage in ISK has been done to match the ISK damage done that generated the kill right in the fist place.



he can make the kill right available to a specific char/corp/alliance... so it doesn't really mean that you could buy it yourself

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#111 - 2012-11-21 22:47:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Veshta Yoshida
Blog wrote:
The aggressor now has the option to retract a war that has been made mutual by the defender. This ends the war in 24 hours. The other option here was to give the aggressor a chance to accept or refuse making the war mutual, but we felt the retraction was a cleaner and simpler solution.

Wow, did you ever choose the wrong one. Eve is a griefers game and giving the aggressor (aka. griefer) complete control of the war at all times will ultimately break the war-dec system (again) ..
By going with the other option, a corp/alliance being attacked due to looking like the numerous fat and timid out there, could rally the troops ... make it mutual and if trap the aggressor in a hell of their own making should he fail to see what transpired ...
Would personally go so far as to give war-dec control of the war to the defender after a week if the mutual agreement went through to guarantee that the fools who overreached had time to get a bloody nose (or bruised forum epeen at the very least).
Blog wrote:
Ancillary Shield Boosters – we’re reducing the capacity by 30%, increasing the capacitor need by 40% and increased the duration of the X-Large ASB to 5 seconds from 4. We’ve tested several other changes, but feel this is enough at this stage. We want to be cautious in not nerfing them too much, but if further changes are needed we have another batch ready (this would make the ASBs use a small amount of cap even when fueled by a cap booster)....

There is no nerf, barring one that makes it as ****-poor as armour reps, that is too harsh. Not only is it instantaneous as shield boosters are, but it benefits from amplifiers at no extra cost (other than fittings), it can be oversized extremely easily and it is two midslot mods (booster+injector) taking up just one slot making mids on the ships that have them to spare even MOAR! valuable.
Increasing cap drain is pretty damn pointless as the handful of people who actually used it as a vanilla booster will just stay their hand and let it reload right off the bat.

Nerf it. If in doubt, nerf it some more! Should emo's take over the discussion, remove it from game "pending review" .. and relaunch it when you have a equivalent armour solution!

As for all the KR/Bounty stuff: Sounds awesome. About time they got some love/meaning (and soon abuse Big smile)
PS: Any plans to make KR tradeable?
BlakPhoenix
Load Up Blast Everything
DARKNESS.
#112 - 2012-11-21 22:49:23 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I am not sure I get the kill right system, I don't use it now but just so I know.

* When someone assigns me permission to utilize a kill right can I activate it when I see them and start shooting?
* If a kill right is activated then does that mean that if I fail to kill them like they dock or something is it gone for good or can you use it until a kill?
* If you make it for anyone and a friend pops them in a shuttle is it gone or does it last the month?



  • yes - and everybody else on grid too
  • it's valid for 15 minutes and it can be activated again either until they lose a ship or 30 days have gone by
  • then it's gone, them losing a ship always uses the kill right up


I hope that them self-destructing doesn't end the kill right else i can see the following situation occurring:

1. Kill right is activated, suspect initiates self destruct and begins warping between safes for 2 minutes. Suspect looses ship however no kill mail is ever given out and no chance is given to the person who bought the kill rights as they only have 2 minutes before the self-destruct ends. This could also be planned with a 3rd party alt in a rookie ship so there s no actual loss.

I would suggest that if they die due to self-destruct then the kill right is not removed, encourage people not to self destruct and to take the loss properly.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#113 - 2012-11-21 22:55:30 UTC
How I see free-for-all public kill rights:

1) get into noobship;

2) use your alt to activate killrights and pop your free ship;

3) enjoy your free kill rights cleanse.

Is that "correct"?
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#114 - 2012-11-21 23:04:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
This how the kill right system you guys came up with will be gamed to regulate it back to be nothing again, well almost:

So I violence some dudes ship and now he has a kill right on me. Side question if he shoots back and I still kill him does that mean he does NOT have kill rights on me like the way it works now? Anyways, so if he is some poor guy that can't cash in the kill rights he has on me he can let others do it for him, cool.

If he sets the price too low to get the kill rights I will simply snatch it with an alt and pop myself in a noob ship. So he has to set the price much higher to keep me from buying it. All I will do is fly ships that are 'not worth buying the kill rights to cash in'. And as long as I'm not hanging out in high sec the whole time, I only have to avoid it for a month. Even in low sec kill rights are pointless because most of the pirates in there who get kill rights on them are already an outlaw, so what is the point?

You really need to remove the expiration date on kill rights to have any real effect on cashing them in. Even have the kill right only expire when enough damage in ISK has been done to match the ISK damage done that generated the kill right in the fist place.



he can make the kill right available to a specific char/corp/alliance... so it doesn't really mean that you could buy it yourself

True.

And your thoughts on removing the expiration date and war dec fees only calculating based on characters training a skill?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#115 - 2012-11-21 23:06:15 UTC
I am very much looking forward to getting killrights on myself with an alt, setting them open to all for cheap and auto piloting through highsec in a bait ship :D

Tippia wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Me: yay, awesome new item that will be extremely useful in WHs, thanks guys!
CCP: oh i'm sorry, it doesnt work in WHs.

great.
At 13% access chance, they should be able to salvage some of the lesser ones, but it'll take a while…


I mean real WHs, where every wreck is a top of the line BS.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#116 - 2012-11-21 23:08:48 UTC
Quote:
The Suspect flag means that anyone in the vicinity can now attack the flagged player. Running through the scenarios of what this entails make this less of an issue than at first glance.
* If the kill right is made available to everyone, but at a low price, the targeted player can simply use an alt or a friend to get rid of the kill right. This is then just an extra hoop to jump through for those players frequently causing others to get kill rights on them.
* If the kill right is made available to everyone, but at a high price, then there is much less of a chance of it being activated constantly and thus less of a hassle. This is especially true when considering that players will likely be wary of kill right scams and thus not keen on paying to activate a kill right with a considerable cost.
* If the kill right is made available to a specific entity, then this is little different than being at war – you just need to remember whom to look out for as it is not as clearly shown as for war.


This bit here: clear as mud.

Could you please have another go at explaining this.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#117 - 2012-11-21 23:12:34 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
How I see free-for-all public kill rights:

1) get into noobship;

2) use your alt to activate killrights and pop your free ship;

3) enjoy your free kill rights cleanse.

Is that "correct"?


yes, which is why we implemented it so you can make them available to someone special (like your corp or alliance)Big smile

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#118 - 2012-11-21 23:14:34 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
This how the kill right system you guys came up with will be gamed to regulate it back to be nothing again, well almost:

So I violence some dudes ship and now he has a kill right on me. Side question if he shoots back and I still kill him does that mean he does NOT have kill rights on me like the way it works now? Anyways, so if he is some poor guy that can't cash in the kill rights he has on me he can let others do it for him, cool.

If he sets the price too low to get the kill rights I will simply snatch it with an alt and pop myself in a noob ship. So he has to set the price much higher to keep me from buying it. All I will do is fly ships that are 'not worth buying the kill rights to cash in'. And as long as I'm not hanging out in high sec the whole time, I only have to avoid it for a month. Even in low sec kill rights are pointless because most of the pirates in there who get kill rights on them are already an outlaw, so what is the point?

You really need to remove the expiration date on kill rights to have any real effect on cashing them in. Even have the kill right only expire when enough damage in ISK has been done to match the ISK damage done that generated the kill right in the fist place.



he can make the kill right available to a specific char/corp/alliance... so it doesn't really mean that you could buy it yourself

True.

And you thoughts on removing the expiration date and war dec fees only calculating based on characters training a skill?


I dont' know if the designers have talked about removing the expiration date but we have a backlog of war dec stories we've been wanting to work on for a long time and hope we get the chance to work on after Retribution Big smile I don't remember what exactly is in it or how it's prioritized..

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#119 - 2012-11-21 23:17:58 UTC
CCP Punkturis, an important question was raised above.


If they shoot back in self-defense, currently you don't get a killright for opting to defend yourself, regardless of death or not.


As of this change, will defending yourself forfeit your kill right on initial engagement?

Where I am.
Mika Takahoshi
Doomheim
#120 - 2012-11-21 23:26:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mika Takahoshi
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
... CCP's pretty much using the numbers I suggested, so if you got a problem with it blame me.

It's no use. Poetic is immune to facts...

I do have a question regarding salvage drones. I know they don't loot, but are they capable of making cans at exploration mag sites lootable in the same manner the salvage module does?