These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Fixing Module Behavior

First post
Author
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#21 - 2012-11-21 17:30:09 UTC
I have been thinking about this some more, specifically the point I commented on above; #4 about renaming ammunition.

This would drastically change how the inventory is sorted in your hanger as well. It seems like it would still be for the better but just wanted to raise that point and maybe talk about it.

With the way ammo is organized it would still be regular ammo followed by faction ammo. Assuming you sorted your inventory by type. Sorted by name we would get the desired result of EMP L followed by all of its variations. Faction ammo is kind of considered to be a different type though and so would still be segmented when sorting by type...

Hmmm this needs some thinking. Maybe if this is done right we can get rid of those damn stupid market categories (advanced, faction, standard ammo) and go with something like what we do with faction modules.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Cid Tazer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-11-21 18:47:20 UTC
What annoys me with the ammo list is that depending on what you have loaded, the order may change drastically as well. (In my experience, I have only noticed this with laser crystals but it may effect other ammo too)
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-11-21 19:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
Quote:
Faction ammo is kind of considered to be a different type though

By whom? Faction EMP ammo usually has the exact same ratio of different damage types and range modifiers as non-faction EMP ammo, for instance. Thus, it would always be used in exactly the same situations as non-faction EMP ammo, against the same types of opponents. There is no obvious practical reason to consider it as a "different type" of ammo instead of just a fancier variation of the same type. I don't see why any actual combat pilots would think of it in such a way, or appreciate it being sorted as a different type.

Quote:
Maybe if this is done right we can get rid of those damn stupid market categories (advanced, faction, standard ammo) and go with something like what we do with faction modules.

Yeah, it would just be one folder, not 3+.

If you're worried about clutter, then just add a few checkbox filters over to the left side of the market window that say things like "basic T1" "T2" "Faction" "Deadspace" "Meta 1-4" etc. Checking "T2" will show ALL T2 items anywhere in any market folder. Unchecking it will hide all of them. So if you know what you want, you just click a couple times, and then browse everything in a nice compact layout that only shows the tech level you are looking for for all products. If you don't know what you want, click click, and it shows the full lists of everything, which, when sorted by TYPE, will easily be interpretable as variations of a single module or ammo type.

(note: any "named" modules should also be changed to begin with the same standard prefix. For instance, there shouldnt be any items with names like "Extra propulsory modifying coil" or whatever, if they are in reality just a meta level afterburner. ALL versions of afterburners should begin with the same, standard unique term "afterburner, [blah blah]" such that ALL variations are listed together)
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#24 - 2012-11-21 19:47:28 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
module cycle timing is not *that* important if you find good workarounds for most common usecases. e.g changing charges during the fight.


This is very much untrue. Frigate fights for example are often decided pretty much entirely by mwd heat timings.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2012-11-21 20:11:44 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Quote:
Faction ammo is kind of considered to be a different type though

By whom? Faction EMP ammo usually has the exact same ratio of different damage types and range modifiers as non-faction EMP ammo, for instance. Thus, it would always be used in exactly the same situations as non-faction EMP ammo, against the same types of opponents. There is no obvious practical reason to consider it as a "different type" of ammo instead of just a fancier variation of the same type. I don't see why any actual combat pilots would think of it in such a way, or appreciate it being sorted as a different type.



By whom? The system behind the scenes... it is really dumb and I don't understand.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#26 - 2012-11-21 21:30:13 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
By whom? The system behind the scenes... it is really dumb and I don't understand.


It's probably a bigger change than you're looking for, but IMO the best solution to this would be to use logical grouping based on the same structure as the variations tab, or otherwise add a parentTypeID field to invtypes.

EMP L
+ Arch Angel EMP L
+ Domination EMP L
+ Republic Fleet EMP L

Fusion L
+ Arch Angel Fusion L
+ Domination Fusion L
+ Republic Fleet Fusion L

Obviously spamming lots of new invmarketgroups is not ideal (8 per ammo size for projectiles to name just one type) but if you could order all the types of EMP under the normal EMP using only visual cosmetic adjustments (prefix them with a +) then that should work nicely enough.

The reason I suggest this over module market groups is the top level "EMP" would still be clickable to get to that selection in the market details. The downside is you would need to sort by a hidden text field associated with each row, otherwise a plain text comparison would order all of the + prefixed "faction" types below the normal ones which defeats the purpose.

Summary:

* Certain market groups flagged as sorting via parent IDs.

* Ammo types are listed as their T1 variants with prefixed names coming directly underneith.

* Sort order of concat (ParentName or ActualName) + token + ActualName so the shorter "EMP L:" would come before "EMP L:Republic Fleet EMP L".

IMO such things as ammunition would really do from a seperate interface for browsing them, something which shows their damage types / ranges, similar to what EVE HQ does in its fitting tool. Then throw in a right click weapon > show ammunition types.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#27 - 2012-11-21 22:06:19 UTC
another thing that it would help is when looking for ammo in the market, there isnt any way to pull up all the small projectile ammos. For hybrids, you can type "charge s" and it comes up with all variants of small t1 hybrid ammo incuding faction, but because projectiles are fleet emp s, fleet fusion s, etc, you cant do that
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#28 - 2012-11-21 23:56:01 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:


EMP L
+ Arch Angel EMP L
+ Domination EMP L
+ Republic Fleet EMP L

Fusion L
+ Arch Angel Fusion L
+ Domination Fusion L
+ Republic Fleet Fusion L


The weird thing this made me think of, though, is that T2 ammo dont fit into the naming convention that easily. You end up with T2 ultraviolet and T2 xray, T2 MF, and T2 Radio, but no other T2 variarions

Should T2 ammo remain separate? Perhaps in it's own section like we have faction, officer and deadspace now. But all medium T2 ammos for that type, so that scorch, conflag, gleam and aurora would all be in one section?


....no that'd confuse newbs into thinking that all 4 T2 types work in all guns....I guess you still need the distinction (since we certainly cant trust them to read the description of the ammos and the guns that can fit them no can we?)

The Drake is a Lie

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#29 - 2012-11-22 01:12:24 UTC
Olerie Viliana wrote:
I support this whole heartedly, maybe your UI teams time would be better spent making sure the basic functions of flying your ship actually functions properly instead of makeing squares into circles.

Also, I'd like to add the really annoying bug where when you select the dock option on a station, you will warp to it and sometimes you will dock, sometimes you will not.

I would also like to mention that sometimes the problem with the module lag is so bad, it is almost an entire cycle off. Meaning when I tell an active mod to deactivate, I have to wait almost another full cycles worth of time before I can reactivate (or do anything with it) because the green bar makes almost another entire cycle for no reason.


this happens to me 100% of the time i select dock and alt tab before i land at station. it never happens if i keep the docking char on screen. distance is irrelevant as far as ive seen.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Kim Dested
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-11-27 19:21:45 UTC
Since we're talking about module behavior, how about we make the pilot able to run something N times? For instance, you have a fit where you know you can run your shield booster for about 2 minutes before it runs out. You currently have two choices:
1) Set autorepeat off. Then you have to pay REAL close attention to shields, and turn that thing on all the time.
2) Set autorepeat on, which means that if you get busy with targetting/other alts, you run out of cap. There goes even your warp ability.

What I'd love to do is be able to click on that shield, and have 3-4 presets, maybe 5, 10 or 20 cycles?
Obviously, if I got to control those per module, that would be even better.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#31 - 2012-11-29 10:45:21 UTC
Bump for all points.
Oregin
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#32 - 2012-11-29 21:49:31 UTC
Excellent post. I definitely agree with the ability to green a red module rather than having to wait for the cycle to end then click it again. After four years of playing, I still end up switching the wrong things off.
Previous page12