EVE General Discussion

And as an example of a higher order consequence, the effort put into producing a proper argument for/against a change might lead to a change in one's perception of that change.

Yeah, no. That's pretty obviously not the source.

…and it wouldn't affect the point if it were — that's kind of the point. Well… part of the point.

Spot on!

Issler

People keep equating Malcanis with goon because he writes for mittens.com even though we've been hostile to Malcanis and his fellows for a long time.

You start out okay. You point out that burning high sec won't move the carebears to low or null. They will just quit playing.

(though, I will have to admit that the CSM notes indicate this is not completely true. CCP claims that burn high sec did, in fact, result in less mining in high sec, slightly more mining in 0.0, and lots more mining in low (of course 100% increase from near 0 is still pretty near 0 in the case of low sec). On the flip side of this, CCP was seeing enough carebear drops that they had to re-balance barges to create barges that are gank resistant to stop and reverse the drops that were being caused by burn high-sec.)

I'm not convinced that the move of miners to low or null actually created more ship boomage, or just PVPer rage at local and station/POS games where miners safe up as soon as any non-blue enters local.....



Here is where you go badly off track....
"Equally misguided are the narrowly focused vocal hi-sec uber alles types who just wish that all the drama-llama nullsecers and Jack Sparrows in lo-sec would just go away."

I've not seen a single post from a carebear asking that the PVPers be removed from game. In general, we carebears all seem to realize and accept that it is the boom that creates the demand.

The posts I see from carebears are basically, "both carebears and PVPers can co-exist within the same game, via game mechanics that set up different areas of space that have different rules, that allow different play style".


" They want CCP to endsolung the problem with a server split or, failing that, PvP-flag hi-sec. They believe that, no longer trammeled by the demands of PvPers, EVE could be happily balanced into an eternal "

Hmmm... The people I see calling for sharding are those that want to go to 0.0, but not have to live under the yoke of goons/test and the other ubber large alliances with fleets of supers. They want to be able to start over, on equal footing, in a new shard, as all players would be insta-noobs there... I guess they do not realize that the goons/test could just insta create alts on the new shard, and still be the largest alliance on the new shard, in a heart beat.

High sec already has criminal flag that gets you concorded, so I have no clue what you are talking about with your " PVP-flag high sec" comment.


The bottom line is this. CCP wants max subscribers. They are going to do whatever is necessary to create environments where both PVPers and carebears can enjoy playing the game the way they enjoy playing the game.

It doesn't matter how loudly one side or the other calls for removing the other, CCP is going to ignore that. CCP will watch subs and unsubs, and make game changes necessary to keep as many (of each type of player) playing, and paying.

I'd say you haven't been paying attention, then. They're around and they do indeed often come in the form of requests for PvP switches or locking people out of highsec or completely new shards (not just for restarting, but for a completely different game that is not EVE). When the mention of “allowing different play styles” comes along, it often actually means “disallow certain play styles — specifically the ones that interfere with me”. EVE already allows for all the play-styles people are asking for, and that request have a nasty tendency of ultimately trying to hide a restriction of play styles behind shallow rhetoric of allowing it, and pointing this out gets you shouted down as being a close-minded nullsec zealot who's trying to keep people from playing.

He means it in the classic MMO sense: a flag you can turn on and off for yourself that marks you as being available for PvP.

No. It was published because he's an established writer of good opinion pieces — exactly the kind of thing the site wants to provide.

Good article and well written.
Just the "people are rational" part should be taken *** grano salis maybe. You see, I have to admit that I once did something because I was stupid.

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Well, maaaybe twice.


Edit: seems there are certain latin words that are not allowed here: "*** grano salis" - "with a grain of salt".

Only the ones that happen to coincide with colloquial names for bodily fluids.

Eh… ok? How is he in any way relevant to the topic at hand?

He looks quite old for an annoying nine year old boy.

Now we may be moving into the realm of splitting hairs in semantics.


Real world, the saying goes... your right to swing your fist ends at my face. Unless, of course, we're in the boxing ring (or MMA octagon).

If my play style is carebear, and your play style is PVP, then "no interferance with each other's play styles" would dictate that your right to PVP ends at my ship, unless I step into the ring.... that is, low/null sec.

Now, I would not go nearly that far, since I realize there are limited resources that even carebears are going after. How am I going to pay for my army of alt by mining fatty belts, if you have mined up all the belts and bought up all the PLEX from the market to fund your army of alts. AND, if I'm getting too big for my britches... moving around billions of ISK worth of goods in a freighter, and not even scouting and using the friendly web trick... well... I should get blown up for profit.

I actually pretty much like EVE as it is. High sec relatively, but not totally safe. Revitalize low sec with FW. Strong null sec.

What EVE needs is more PVPers that are content to PVP with other players that enjoy PVPing, and fewer sociopaths that want to blow up the ships of carebears.

What's the matter griefer? Can't win a fight against someone that is ready and looking to fight back, so have to take out your frustration by beating up on the people that are not ready for, not looking for a fight?

Pathetic losers, those people are.


Oh... look at me... I'm such an awesome PVPer that I logged off in a belt during a war, then put an out of corp, cloaked up alt in the belt. When a WT came in, I used the out of corp alt to bump the WT while I logged in my PVP toon, and blew up the defenseless miner....

Did you do it to prevent them from mining the belts so you could mine them instead? Nope... just wanted to pad my kill board sats with easy kills to inflate my epeen, and to feast on tasty carebear tears....

Sociopath!