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Two video game developers held in Greece accused of "espionage"
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Raptros
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-11-20 20:09:38 UTC
And have been denied bail and could face up to 20 years in prison.

Quote:
Facing up to 20 years in prison, for taking pictures of an island, just like countless other tourists before them, the Czech developers are being charged with espionage. Only because they happen to work on a computer game, a game that portrays Greece as a battlefield for a fictional futuristic conflict between the USA and Iran in the year 2035.

Ivan and Martin are no spies, but passionate community members, dedicated to the game and its experience for the player. Many of us have witnessed Ivan talking in interviews passionately about the progress of ARMA3 and all the new features, also developed by Martin.

It's time to show our support, not only as a community, but as players and concerned citizens, for two developers, who now face a lifetime in prison for an unfortunate misunderstanding.


The Greek prosecutors say that they were doing espionage work for Turkey.

Apparently they took over 200 photos of the island for research for the game ARMA3 (or, since the game is almost finished, downloadable content for the future). Out of these 200+ photos, 7 of them had "some kind of military object" in the backgroud of the image. Really? What about many of the other tourists on that island that were taking photos? Are they spies too? Besides, most of these "military objects" can be easilly found on Google maps in clearer detail than what is shown on the photos.

The Greek prosecutors also have claimed that the developers had specilized equpment like top of the range night vision lenses/cameras and such, not available on the public market. The case file says they only had consumer electronics in their kit.

The place they are being held is absolutely disgusting, 20+ prisoners in a single cell, here are some photos:

http://petition.helpivanmartin.org/help - Bottom of the page, on the right hand side.

Now correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't Greece have enough problems?

Sources:

http://petition.helpivanmartin.org/
http://www.helpivanmartin.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi-MA...eature=g-all-u - Up untill 4:50

Tl;DR - Two developers detained in Greece for "espionage" work when in fact they were working on the game ARMA3.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-11-20 20:29:11 UTC
Yes, because Greece is well known for being the pinnacle of military technology and is totally worthy to send 2 devs over to spy on

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Raptros
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-11-20 20:33:01 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Yes, because Greece is well known for being the pinnacle of military technology and is totally worthy to send 2 devs over to spy on

Totally
Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-11-20 21:15:24 UTC
turn around and put up your walls
Borascus
#5 - 2012-11-20 22:53:42 UTC
oblique -> unread it
Ghazu
#6 - 2012-11-21 10:31:37 UTC
They probably need the ransom monies lol greece.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#7 - 2012-11-21 13:22:10 UTC
I'm sure this is 3 - 4 month old news... Unless it happened AGAIN o.O

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Max Godsnottlingson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-11-21 16:24:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson
Was there not a similar incident a few years ago with the Greeks, when they arrested some plane spotters?

I must admit that I have mixed views on this. Yes, it's silliness gone silly. But it's easy to forget that many countties do not have the same level of freedom as is enjoyed by North Americans (Inc Canadians) and Western Europeans.

You would think that common sense would play a part and some sort of official contact should be made first.

A stupid situation, but somewhat self inflicted .
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#9 - 2012-11-21 17:03:26 UTC
Max Godsnottlingson wrote:
Was there not a similar incident a few years ago with the Greeks, when they arrested some plane spotters?

I must admit that I have mixed views on this. Yes, it's silliness gone silly. But it's easy to forget that many countties do not have the same level of freedom as is enjoyed by North Americans (Inc Canadians) and Western Europeans.

You would think that common sense would play a part and some sort of official contact should be made first.

A stupid situation, but somewhat self inflicted .

I think it's more along the lines that if your innocent and truly mean no harm and your going there doing what others have been doing for decades just to take pictures which 200+ others were doing as well at that time, why call? I know hindsight is 20/20 but come on. Who thinks of this kind of crap happening to them in advance?

In all honesty, I think this would be considered harassment and CCP should fix this from happening again. Yeah that's right, Greece needs a patch.

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#10 - 2012-11-21 17:21:27 UTC
Go sneaking around a US military base taking pictures, and tell me how that works out for you. You'd be lucky if anyone ever saw or heard of you again.

I think it's unfortunate what's happened to them, but they were extremely naive not to consider the seriousness.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Max Godsnottlingson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-11-21 17:25:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Max Godsnottlingson wrote:
Was there not a similar incident a few years ago with the Greeks, when they arrested some plane spotters?

I must admit that I have mixed views on this. Yes, it's silliness gone silly. But it's easy to forget that many countties do not have the same level of freedom as is enjoyed by North Americans (Inc Canadians) and Western Europeans.

You would think that common sense would play a part and some sort of official contact should be made first.

A stupid situation, but somewhat self inflicted .

I think it's more along the lines that if your innocent and truly mean no harm and your going there doing what others have been doing for decades just to take pictures which 200+ others were doing as well at that time, why call? I know hindsight is 20/20 but come on. Who thinks of this kind of crap happening to them in advance?

In all honesty, I think this would be considered harassment and CCP should fix this from happening again. Yeah that's right, Greece needs a patch.


No, sorry I can't agree. You go to a country that has a relationship with it's neighbour that is at best fractious. A country that does not have the best of records when it comes to human rights and a country that already has a track record of showing intollerance towards people who point cameras in the 'wrong' direction. Then cry when you get jumped on from a great height.

No, Greece doesn't need a patch, well not for this anyways. The folks in question jumped into low sec without the right intel and support and got ganked.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#12 - 2012-11-21 17:47:32 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Go sneaking around a US military base taking pictures, and tell me how that works out for you. You'd be lucky if anyone ever saw or heard of you again.

I think it's unfortunate what's happened to them, but they were extremely naive not to consider the seriousness.



Who said they were sneaking on a military base? All I see is 7 photo's with military equipment in the background. But I'll accept your challenge and give you a picture with US military equipment in the foreground.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#13 - 2012-11-21 17:48:21 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
I think it's more along the lines that if your innocent and truly mean no harm and your going there doing what others have been doing for decades just to take pictures which 200+ others were doing as well at that time


The OP and the authors of these articles are conveniently forgetting to mention there are secure military facilities on the island, and that they were sneaking around those taking pictures.

So it's not really a case of them innocently going around with a tour group and taking pictures of trees and rocks like some would have you believe. I'd have more support for them if they admitted they screwed up instead of pretending they did nothing at all to invite all this.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#14 - 2012-11-21 18:13:45 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Who said they were sneaking on a military base?


Everyone except those trying to make the captured appear like innocent victims.

And to say they were taking pictures of things tourists frequently take pictures of is odd because Lemnos has no real tourism. To go there as a foreigner and spend hours taking pictures and video of military bases, even if they are a couple hundred feet away, is bound to get some attention.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#15 - 2012-11-21 18:28:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth O'Hara
Bane Necran wrote:
Go sneaking around a US military base taking pictures, and tell me how that works out for you. You'd be lucky if anyone ever saw or heard of you again.

I think it's unfortunate what's happened to them, but they were extremely naive not to consider the seriousness.

Too late... Been to Fort Benning and taken pictures of various tanks, guns, artillery. Black Hawks in action. Video of excercise demostrations. This was post 9/11 in 2005 I believe so don't give me that crap.

And no, I am and was not military of any form.

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#16 - 2012-11-21 18:31:08 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:


Everyone except those trying to make the captured appear like innocent victims.



Everyone is an awfully big collection there. Do you have news articles in French, Italian, Portuguese, German, Ukrainian, and English that I may view that collaborate with this?

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#17 - 2012-11-21 18:53:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Everyone is an awfully big collection there. Do you have news articles in French, Italian, Portuguese, German, Ukrainian, and English that I may view that collaborate with this?


Just google it for yourself instead of making me link thousands or even tens of thousands of pages. Every time i've read about this they mention the military base, and this thread is the first time i've seen it go unmentioned, which is why i brought it up right away.

Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Too late... Been to Fort Benning and taken pictures of various tanks, guns, artillery. Black Hawks in action. Video of excercise demostrations. This was post 9/11 in 2005 I believe so don't give me that crap.


If you were foreign and spoke no English i don't think you would have had a very good time.

I think Fort Benning even does tours and puts on shows for the public, which you may have seen, so it's not a very good comparison in any regard.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#18 - 2012-11-21 19:02:46 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Everyone is an awfully big collection there. Do you have news articles in French, Italian, Portuguese, German, Ukrainian, and English that I may view that collaborate with this?


Just google it for yourself instead of making me link thousands or even tens of thousands of pages. Every time i've read about this they mention the military base, and this thread is the first time i've seen it go unmentioned, which is why i brought it up right away.

Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Too late... Been to Fort Benning and taken pictures of various tanks, guns, artillery. Black Hawks in action. Video of excercise demostrations. This was post 9/11 in 2005 I believe so don't give me that crap.


If you were foreign and spoke no English i don't think you would have had a very good time.

I think Fort Benning even does tours and puts on shows for the public, which you may have seen, so it's not a very good comparison in any regard.

True enough, but it also helps to have friends and family that are vietnam and korean war vets with full access as connections.

As for these 2 guys, Why would the game developers stick their necks out and offer defense?
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/09/bohemia-offers-defense-for-arma-3-devs-arrested-in-greece/

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#19 - 2012-11-21 19:15:32 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Everyone is an awfully big collection there. Do you have news articles in French, Italian, Portuguese, German, Ukrainian, and English that I may view that collaborate with this?


Just google it for yourself instead of making me link thousands or even tens of thousands of pages. Every time i've read about this they mention the military base, and this thread is the first time i've seen it go unmentioned, which is why i brought it up right away.



I'm not doing your dirty work for you. You made the case, you back it up. Oh, and the .org site does mention military buildings and provides several examples of military base footage taken from aircraft.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#20 - 2012-11-21 19:45:22 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
I'm not doing your dirty work for you. You made the case, you back it up. Oh, and the .org site does mention military buildings and provides several examples of military base footage taken from aircraft.


No way of knowing what .org site you're talking about.

But if you're seriously trying to argue that all military bases don't mind foreign people randomly showing up to spend hours taking pictures, and this case is somehow unusual, then i think that speaks for itself and no counter argument is needed.

I mean, out of every group i can think of, the most relaxed and non-paranoid are military groups. I think i'll just stroll right up to a secure facility and try to high five the guards, cause they're too cool to be concerned with security. Security is for losers, really.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
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