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With CrimeWatch 2.0 do you think we'll see a "police force" build up?

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Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#21 - 2012-11-21 00:48:15 UTC
I would like to see the formation of system security forces with the ability to flag people in their system. First as yellow then as red if they do not leave or comply.

I would like to have the rewards for these security forces based on the amount of trade through and in the system so that there was an impetus to protect trade. Currently there is only an incentive to destroy trade which makes zero sense.

Eventually I would like to see these PC security forces replace Concord.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#22 - 2012-11-21 01:04:37 UTC
After reading through this thread, I now see that despite multiple dev blogs, dev threads, and massive GD threadnaughts about kill rights, over three quarters of people still have no clue how the system is going to work.

It will be a terrible system. It is going to rid empire of a good amount of pvp within a few months (war changes already did most of that work). If you are not aware of this, then you are either illiterate, or ignorant. Or a bear who is happy that he will finally be able to bear in peace. Well, you actually won't, because griefing will never go away, and now it will be fueled by vengeance.

Bounties = good
Kill rights = bad
Crimewatch = bad

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#23 - 2012-11-21 06:19:03 UTC
No

It will be like a 15 minute War Dec. Camping Undock points for variable periods of time.

It's why I can come to GD and troll goons, tell them off and throw shitposts at them and they don't war dec me.
They know I will log out and go play something else. For as long as 6 months if need be. I've done it.

Griefers will grief. It's what they do. You can't hold them accountable, you can just get rid of them.
Herr Hammer Draken
#24 - 2012-11-21 06:19:36 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
After reading through this thread, I now see that despite multiple dev blogs, dev threads, and massive GD threadnaughts about kill rights, over three quarters of people still have no clue how the system is going to work.

It will be a terrible system. It is going to rid empire of a good amount of pvp within a few months (war changes already did most of that work). If you are not aware of this, then you are either illiterate, or ignorant. Or a bear who is happy that he will finally be able to bear in peace. Well, you actually won't, because griefing will never go away, and now it will be fueled by vengeance.

Bounties = good
Kill rights = bad
Crimewatch = bad




HAHA I told you this over a month ago. Come the roll out of retribution, only some 10% of the players are going to have a clue what is happening, and even fewer will be able to take advantage of it.

Just wait til after DEC 4th and players are writting threads asking what are those weird new icons on ships?

Or How do I buy a kill right?

And I was just flying along minding my own business and suddenly this guy turns red right in front of me. And like everybody around was shooting at him and how and why did this happen? I have no clue...
Does this mean he can shoot at me? What is going on? How come concord did nothing?

Oh we are going to see so many questions it will be obvious how little everybody understands retribution.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Zak Fey
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-11-21 06:34:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Zak Fey
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
After reading through this thread, I now see that despite multiple dev blogs, dev threads, and massive GD threadnaughts about kill rights, over three quarters of people still have no clue how the system is going to work.

It will be a terrible system. It is going to rid empire of a good amount of pvp within a few months (war changes already did most of that work). If you are not aware of this, then you are either illiterate, or ignorant. Or a bear who is happy that he will finally be able to bear in peace. Well, you actually won't, because griefing will never go away, and now it will be fueled by vengeance.

Bounties = good
Kill rights = bad
Crimewatch = bad




HAHA I told you this over a month ago. Come the roll out of retribution, only some 10% of the players are going to have a clue what is happening, and even fewer will be able to take advantage of it.

Just wait til after DEC 4th and players are writting threads asking what are those weird new icons on ships?

Or How do I buy a kill right?

And I was just flying along minding my own business and suddenly this guy turns red right in front of me. And like everybody around was shooting at him and how and why did this happen? I have no clue...
Does this mean he can shoot at me? What is going on? How come concord did nothing?

Oh we are going to see so many questions it will be obvious how little everybody understands retribution.

This. The amount of high sec players that actually pay attention to expansions are very low. Most of them just read the footnotes and trust any rumor they hear on the forums. Without understanding what the people who PvP in high sec have already found all the ways to **** you over.
Herr Hammer Draken
#26 - 2012-11-21 06:37:20 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I have been considering a scenario.
I am not sure how it will all play out, but here goes:

1. Assume you acquire the killrights for a substantial amount of the suicide gankers in Uedama.
This is pretty much a group from goons and some crew called Initiative Mercenaries, or some derivative of that name.
2. Assume you magically find one of their safespots where they mass just before moving in on some freighter they have bumped 200+ km from the gate.
3. Assume you have a sizeable crew of people you trust implicitly.
4. Assume you are in an Arazu or some other cloaky tackler at said safespot.
5. You decloak, as well as all your other friends, (maybe in 110K EHP, 500 DPS Covops Proteus), just as you activate the killrights making these asshats Suspects and flashy.
6. Assume you get lucky and able to get a tackle before one or all of the asshats warp out.

Then, and only then, can you kill one or two of these guys and then killrights are valuable.

But frankly, there are so many holes and game mechanic issues in those assumptions, that I can't see it happening.
Finding pods in space, (because these guys are not dumb enough to hang out in their Taolos or Tornados in space), is essentially impossible if they are warping from safe spot to safe spot.
Also, the lag between decloaking an Arazu and locking is so long the criminals will easily warp out.
And if the gankers choose to stay and fight, rest assured those boats you are targeting are not set for ganking, but for PvP, and their OOC logis are inbound. It won't matter if the logi's go flashy, because the gankers won't engage unless they are pretty sure can win the fight.

What is far more likely is the sociopaths will make a mockery of this new Crimewatch, and with the bounty system, we will simply see a lot more kills in high sec, with the sociopaths just gloating in local chat.


Do you know that your scenario can not happen like you describe it with retribution.

It is impossible to acquire kill rights and stock pile them.

If a player A sells his kill right that he has on player B then player B's icon changes over his ship. When you see this player B flying around with this different looking icon it is to clue you in that he has kill rights for sale on him.

What you do is right click on him and buy the kill right which activates it for 15 minutes right now. As soon as you make the purchase. He turns red right on the spot to everybody around him. Any player can legally shoot him that sees him red without getting concorded. Once you open fire he can return fire. Again without concord action.

If he avoids getting killed for 15 minutes then the red status goes away. The kill right becomes available to be bought again on player B. If you continue to attack him after he stops being red you will get concorded. If he keeps firing at you after the red status goes away he will get concorded. The open free attack zone only lasts 15 minutes on a timer.

Again if player B does not die then the kill right for sale still exsists. It is not cleared. And can be repurchased for another 15 minute timer. There might be a cool down before this resets. Not sure about that.

If player B does get killed and if player B has a bounty then up to 20% of the value of the ship he was flying in when he was killed will get paid out to the final blow killer. Say player B had a 100 million bounty and was flying a ship worth 20 million.
Say player C got the final blow. Then player C will get 4 million of the bounty (20% of 20 million) and the new bounty on player B will be 96 million.

Also if player B does get killed then the kill right gets cleared and his icon reverts to normal. Indicating no kill rights for sale available on player B.

How many of you have any clue this is going to happen? Just about nobody is ready for this.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#27 - 2012-11-21 07:32:53 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:


Do you know that your scenario can not happen like you describe it with retribution.

It is impossible to acquire kill rights and stock pile them.

If a player A sells his kill right that he has on player B then player B's icon changes over his ship. When you see this player B flying around with this different looking icon it is to clue you in that he has kill rights for sale on him.

What you do is right click on him and buy the kill right which activates it for 15 minutes right now. As soon as you make the purchase. He turns red right on the spot to everybody around him. Any player can legally shoot him that sees him red without getting concorded. Once you open fire he can return fire. Again without concord action.

If he avoids getting killed for 15 minutes then the red status goes away. The kill right becomes available to be bought again on player B. If you continue to attack him after he stops being red you will get concorded. If he keeps firing at you after the red status goes away he will get concorded. The open free attack zone only lasts 15 minutes on a timer.

Again if player B does not die then the kill right for sale still exsists. It is not cleared. And can be repurchased for another 15 minute timer. There might be a cool down before this resets. Not sure about that.

If player B does get killed and if player B has a bounty then up to 20% of the value of the ship he was flying in when he was killed will get paid out to the final blow killer. Say player B had a 100 million bounty and was flying a ship worth 20 million.
Say player C got the final blow. Then player C will get 4 million of the bounty (20% of 20 million) and the new bounty on player B will be 96 million.

Also if player B does get killed then the kill right gets cleared and his icon reverts to normal. Indicating no kill rights for sale available on player B.

How many of you have any clue this is going to happen? Just about nobody is ready for this.


If you are correct, then Crimewatch is even more screwed than I thought.

I realize I can collect my own kill rights anytime someone shoots at me, but if I can't stockpile kill rights, it is all over baby.
The most idiotic part is that assuming I was able to tackle someone who I had my own/bought a kill right, his ganker buddies sitting right beside him can shoot him and hope for the killing shot and collect the bounty, if there is any.

As I stated before, this new system will do nothing to slow down the suicide ganking in places like Uedama.
It will just get worse.
Herr Hammer Draken
#28 - 2012-11-21 07:41:23 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:


Do you know that your scenario can not happen like you describe it with retribution.

It is impossible to acquire kill rights and stock pile them.

If a player A sells his kill right that he has on player B then player B's icon changes over his ship. When you see this player B flying around with this different looking icon it is to clue you in that he has kill rights for sale on him.

What you do is right click on him and buy the kill right which activates it for 15 minutes right now. As soon as you make the purchase. He turns red right on the spot to everybody around him. Any player can legally shoot him that sees him red without getting concorded. Once you open fire he can return fire. Again without concord action.

If he avoids getting killed for 15 minutes then the red status goes away. The kill right becomes available to be bought again on player B. If you continue to attack him after he stops being red you will get concorded. If he keeps firing at you after the red status goes away he will get concorded. The open free attack zone only lasts 15 minutes on a timer.

Again if player B does not die then the kill right for sale still exsists. It is not cleared. And can be repurchased for another 15 minute timer. There might be a cool down before this resets. Not sure about that.

If player B does get killed and if player B has a bounty then up to 20% of the value of the ship he was flying in when he was killed will get paid out to the final blow killer. Say player B had a 100 million bounty and was flying a ship worth 20 million.
Say player C got the final blow. Then player C will get 4 million of the bounty (20% of 20 million) and the new bounty on player B will be 96 million.

Also if player B does get killed then the kill right gets cleared and his icon reverts to normal. Indicating no kill rights for sale available on player B.

How many of you have any clue this is going to happen? Just about nobody is ready for this.


If you are correct, then Crimewatch is even more screwed than I thought.

I realize I can collect my own kill rights anytime someone shoots at me, but if I can't stockpile kill rights, it is all over baby.
The most idiotic part is that assuming I was able to tackle someone who I had my own/bought a kill right, his ganker buddies sitting right beside him can shoot him and hope for the killing shot and collect the bounty, if there is any.

As I stated before, this new system will do nothing to slow down the suicide ganking in places like Uedama.
It will just get worse.


I am not certain how retribution will effect your own kill rights that you choose not to sell. If those get handled they same as they are now or do they also get handled under the new retribution mechanic?

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-11-21 07:45:25 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
As I stated before, this new system will do nothing to slow down the suicide ganking in places like Uedama.
It will just get worse.


There's no problem there - this is EVE. Ships blow up.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-11-21 08:58:30 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:


Do you know that your scenario can not happen like you describe it with retribution.

It is impossible to acquire kill rights and stock pile them.

If a player A sells his kill right that he has on player B then player B's icon changes over his ship. When you see this player B flying around with this different looking icon it is to clue you in that he has kill rights for sale on him.

What you do is right click on him and buy the kill right which activates it for 15 minutes right now. As soon as you make the purchase. He turns red right on the spot to everybody around him. Any player can legally shoot him that sees him red without getting concorded. Once you open fire he can return fire. Again without concord action.

If he avoids getting killed for 15 minutes then the red status goes away. The kill right becomes available to be bought again on player B. If you continue to attack him after he stops being red you will get concorded. If he keeps firing at you after the red status goes away he will get concorded. The open free attack zone only lasts 15 minutes on a timer.

Again if player B does not die then the kill right for sale still exsists. It is not cleared. And can be repurchased for another 15 minute timer. There might be a cool down before this resets. Not sure about that.

If player B does get killed and if player B has a bounty then up to 20% of the value of the ship he was flying in when he was killed will get paid out to the final blow killer. Say player B had a 100 million bounty and was flying a ship worth 20 million.
Say player C got the final blow. Then player C will get 4 million of the bounty (20% of 20 million) and the new bounty on player B will be 96 million.

Also if player B does get killed then the kill right gets cleared and his icon reverts to normal. Indicating no kill rights for sale available on player B.

How many of you have any clue this is going to happen? Just about nobody is ready for this.


If you are correct, then Crimewatch is even more screwed than I thought.

I realize I can collect my own kill rights anytime someone shoots at me, but if I can't stockpile kill rights, it is all over baby.
The most idiotic part is that assuming I was able to tackle someone who I had my own/bought a kill right, his ganker buddies sitting right beside him can shoot him and hope for the killing shot and collect the bounty, if there is any.

As I stated before, this new system will do nothing to slow down the suicide ganking in places like Uedama.
It will just get worse.


Except that the suicide gankers will very soon all have kill rights for sale on them which means pvpers can sit in systems like Uedama to hunt suicide gankers for some easy access pvp.
Singoth
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-11-21 09:02:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Singoth
EDIT: Answering to the OP, not above posters.
No, I don't think so.

However, I do think we will see a huge increase in mercenary corporations and alliances, especially in highsec.
You were ganked, or someone attempted to gank you but failed? Sell your kill-rights to some mercs, have fun with revenge.
And yes, you read that right: if someone only attacks you (doesn't destroy your ship), you also get killrights on that person. Awesome :D

New bounty system makes sure that bounty hunters get some love, so we'll see some more hunters as well.


I intend to try out both careers there. Should be fun :D

Less yappin', more zappin'!
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-11-21 09:02:47 UTC
once ccp adds smuggling with these mechanics stuff might get interesting (bounty placed by NPCs, yellow flag placed by NPCs ...)
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#33 - 2012-11-21 09:31:51 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Except that the suicide gankers will very soon all have kill rights for sale on them which means pvpers can sit in systems like Uedama to hunt suicide gankers for some easy access pvp.

And that's a god thing, because it can't be done right now, right?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-11-21 09:49:20 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
As soon as you make the purchase. He turns red right on the spot to everybody around him. Any player can legally shoot him that sees him red without getting concorded. Once you open fire he can return fire. Again without concord action.

Which is still the most ******** mechanic ever.
Why should I pay for a killright if that gets extended to EVERYBODY ELSE anyway?
It makes absolutely no sense.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
oniplE
MeMento.
#35 - 2012-11-21 09:57:04 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

As I stated before, this new system will do nothing to slow down the suicide ganking in places like Uedama.
It will just get worse.

It won't get worse. Looting a ganked freighter wreck will get you a suspect flag, so it's legal for everyone to attack the looter and then legally loot his wreck.

There might be some tricks to get around this though, like moving the loot straight to a can and then have a buddy legally loot the can. That way you can get the cargo onto a ship without it getting a suspect flag. (The looter still gets flagged, but he never carries any cargo so it doesn't matter).

So it won't get worse, but not much better either :P
CCP Falcon
#36 - 2012-11-21 10:00:31 UTC

I hope so.

I think it'd be awesome to see a player created and funded Police force Cool

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Herr Hammer Draken
#37 - 2012-11-21 10:05:15 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
As soon as you make the purchase. He turns red right on the spot to everybody around him. Any player can legally shoot him that sees him red without getting concorded. Once you open fire he can return fire. Again without concord action.

Which is still the most ******** mechanic ever.
Why should I pay for a killright if that gets extended to EVERYBODY ELSE anyway?
It makes absolutely no sense.


Yea I kinda agree. From a player standpoint this is dubious at best. From CCP standpoint this is epic lots of space battles.
That is their end goal, it is not clear they will achieve that goal with this mechanic however.

Then again eve is constantly changing so if this does not have the desired effect we can expect another change to it in the future.

Also as far as I know their is no change to the current kill rights mechanic if you do not sell the kill rights.

Another question, if you buy the kill rights and you are alone with the target when he turns red, then a few new players warp in after say you are 1 minute into the fight, what happens? Do they get to join in? How then does the timer update for all the new arrivals? How much lag will this mechanic induce?

Or is the fight limited to just the players that were "on grid" when the kill right was purchased?

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#38 - 2012-11-21 10:12:11 UTC
Intel tools need major changs to make police forces work long term.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Riddick Liddell
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-11-21 10:20:39 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

I hope so.

I think it'd be awesome to see a player created and funded Police force Cool



Possible

CCP Falcon wrote:

I hope so.

I think it'd be awesome to see a player created and funded, effective Police force Cool



Never happen.
See Concord if you would like proof.
Herr Hammer Draken
#40 - 2012-11-21 10:22:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Hammer Draken
Further what happens if there are say 6 ships all with kill rights for sale on them sitting on a gate.

Someone activates the kill rights on 1 of them.

Maybe there are 20 ships total on grid. So now you have 19 on 1. But then the second ship gets kill rights activated 30 seconds later. And then more ships gate in and see the third and activate his kill rights. And so on each kill right gets activated in about 30 second intervals. And more ships gate in and warp to gate. And so on.

Who gets to shoot at who legally can get confusing quickly in such an escalation. Multiple timers running.

How to keep it all sorted. And how will that impact lag?

Players not understanding the suspect flag and how it works may be attempting to loot the wrecks as they occur and get suspect flags themselves during this battle. Spreading the battle further. It could get interesting trying to follow it all.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"