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Poor Little Gila
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Koovak
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-11-13 18:18:51 UTC
I am a big fan of the Gila for running lvl 4 missions but with the new improved npc AI changes just around the corner I am worried for my main ship of choice. Please dont get me wrong I am all for the new improved AI as I have been playing this game since day 1 so know it was in need of improvement.

I dont like using battleships and can use a Tengu if need be but would rather not. What I am trying to say really is will my Gila be doomed and maybe I should be looking into other options. Has anyone tried to setup the Cynabal along the lines of a mini Machariel or maybe even a mini Nightmare and Vindicator with the other faction cruisers?

Yes I could use a battleship or the Tengu but that would be easy and boring.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-11-13 18:24:07 UTC
atri sleipnir and beam legion are 'ok' mission runners.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2012-11-13 18:28:36 UTC
You say you don't like using battleships.. but have you actually tried a Machariel? It's about as fast and agile as that Gila of yours (and has about twice the damage).

Otherwise, yeah, Sleipnir is the way to go.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#4 - 2012-11-13 18:52:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
The good news is the AI code is completely broken and you can use your drones exactly as you could before, only now there's some pointless little routine you have to go through each time.

Oh god.
It'sNotMyFaultYourMother ThrewYouAway
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-11-13 21:30:43 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
You say you don't like using battleships.. but have you actually tried a Machariel? It's about as fast and agile as that Gila of yours (and has about twice the damage).

Otherwise, yeah, Sleipnir is the way to go.


Mach is getting the stick too though. Not sure if it's this patch but devs have stated that by accident the falloff bonus was added by one dev in the same patch another dev modified TE's creating the current monsterMach we know today. Def still gonna be a good ship, but as good?

Looks like officer and faction drone mods are getting added though. So if the yoghurt and the schwartz come together then just maybe we can get a goldfish for christmas? Gila with faction / officer DDU's would be insane though, 1000+ cowbell.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#6 - 2012-11-13 21:39:01 UTC
It'sNotMyFaultYourMother ThrewYouAway wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
You say you don't like using battleships.. but have you actually tried a Machariel? It's about as fast and agile as that Gila of yours (and has about twice the damage).

Otherwise, yeah, Sleipnir is the way to go.


Mach is getting the stick too though. Not sure if it's this patch but devs have stated that by accident the falloff bonus was added by one dev in the same patch another dev modified TE's creating the current monsterMach we know today. Def still gonna be a good ship, but as good?


Oh, I'm quite certain the Machariel will get hit by the nerf bat at some point. But it probably won't come until battleship balancing at the earliest, and I suspect it won't actually land until they do faction/T2 BSs in another pass. So... another year?

But yes, it's coming. Even if they took away the falloff bonus and replaced it with the old tracking bonus it would still be a monster though. If they choose to murder its speed and agility on the other hand... well, maybe it won't fare so well.

It'sNotMyFaultYourMother ThrewYouAway wrote:
Looks like officer and faction drone mods are getting added though. So if the yoghurt and the schwartz come together then just maybe we can get a goldfish for christmas? Gila with faction / officer DDU's would be insane though, 1000+ cowbell.


I know it will happen, and I like the idea of faction drone mods, but this is... well. Sigh.
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-11-13 21:48:05 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:

But yes, it's coming. Even if they took away the falloff bonus and replaced it with the old tracking bonus it would still be a monster though. If they choose to murder its speed and agility on the other hand... well, maybe it won't fare so well.
.


Nothing to suggest they will touch agility or speed. They straight out stated the double-falloff buff was an accident and that it's getting fixed but no dev has said a single word to suggest they might nerf any other factor about this ship. =)
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-11-13 22:27:13 UTC
AI changes will only harm people who go into a mission, release their drones, and then leave the computer. If you're actually there paying attention, especially if you're using sentries, you'll be fine. I used drones in wormholes for years. Never lost one to a sleeper, despite the rampant whining and outright lies that sleepers have some obscene hatred of drones.
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-11-13 22:56:59 UTC
The drones are not going to be broken Lol It's just that you need to pay attention.
I use a Gila for Minmatar missions lvl 4, and i already have to manage the agro for my sentinels, so i don't see the problem.
Recall the one which is being attacked and then release it again, it's very simple.
And indeed, there are ships which deal more damage than the Gila, but they have not the size of a cruiser Blink
Sunglasses At Midnight
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-11-14 00:16:57 UTC
If you're looking for an expensive and agile ship to do missions in, why the Gila? It's a bit of an ugly duckling (meh, Moa hull in a nutshell) and there's ships out there that do the same thing. Is it just for style? Or do you have some hatred of the Machariel?
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#11 - 2012-11-14 07:23:09 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
atri sleipnir and beam legion are 'ok' mission runners.



I prefer my pulse legion over beam. Personal taste. Cool

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-11-14 14:21:12 UTC
Sunglasses At Midnight wrote:
If you're looking for an expensive and agile ship to do missions in, why the Gila? It's a bit of an ugly duckling (meh, Moa hull in a nutshell) and there's ships out there that do the same thing. Is it just for style? Or do you have some hatred of the Machariel?


Ugly it may be, but a ship that can tank like a brick Drake and punch like an Ishtar and still have the drone bay space to fulfil ewar and logi roles on top of that is not to be sneezed at. Besides, there are only three other ships out there that can match the Gila's drone bay: the Rattlesnake, the Navy Domi, and the Sin (which is a fbeeping Black Ops, so forget about that).

Oddly enough, the Gila's seeing a bit of a renaissance in the latest iteration of faction warfare, at least in the Black Rise/Placid war zone. Yeah, it costs about as much as a good battleship, but it's easily as versatile as a good battleship.

As for missions? Just keep an eye on your drones, scoop 'em when they catch aggro, and you should be okay.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-11-14 19:22:20 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Oh, I'm quite certain the Machariel will get hit by the nerf bat at some point.



I'd actually be willing to think the other way around. Since battleships is something you DON'T want for any other purpose than train capital ships, Mission, bridge stuff or uber structure shooting, my bet goes on nice T1/T2 battleship revamp offering more dmg more tank and self defence capabilities.
Then Navy versions and pirate ones should get even better, and by the way if Machariel seems so OP it's just because almost all other BS's except a couple are pretty awful ships to fly, expensive to loose and extremely fragile to everything under their own size.

brb
Justin Cody
War Firm
#14 - 2012-11-14 19:43:10 UTC
You could just actively monitor your drones while flying your Gila rather than looking for another EasyMode™ pwnmobile for missions. Perhaps you learn to pilot the Gila more actively?
It'sNotMyFaultYourMother ThrewYouAway
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-11-14 21:17:40 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Oh, I'm quite certain the Machariel will get hit by the nerf bat at some point.



I'd actually be willing to think the other way around. Since battleships is something you DON'T want for any other purpose than train capital ships, Mission, bridge stuff or uber structure shooting, my bet goes on nice T1/T2 battleship revamp offering more dmg more tank and self defence capabilities.
Then Navy versions and pirate ones should get even better, and by the way if Machariel seems so OP it's just because almost all other BS's except a couple are pretty awful ships to fly, expensive to loose and extremely fragile to everything under their own size.


1. It is stated that the Machariel got double buffed falloff bonus (mach got buffed in same patch TE's did) by mistake, so that part is getting nerfed no doubt.

2. Fragile to anything under the own size? Maybe, but also freakishly deadly to anything under their own size in PVP. They need support but when they have it, they eat cruisers and battlecruisers for breakfast and frigates can't hurt them much in fleet vs fleet combat unless they're ridicilously outnumbered. Also they can kill frigates with low transvestal or at long ranges with ease.

3. Battleships might get a general buff at some point, (I hope) but that doesn't have anything to do with anything. Personally I hope they get a buff to active defense. Like modifiying LAR to rep low amounts all the time and high amounts when activated.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-11-19 18:28:21 UTC
The new AI mission rats are getting is just a dumbed down sleeper AI
contrary to popular belief your drones will not instapop 1 millisecond after launching them

Keep your drone overwatch window open & expanded
recall as required, wait, relaunch. it's not rocket science.




The Gila will be just as awesome after the patch as it was before the patch.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#17 - 2012-11-19 21:08:14 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Oh, I'm quite certain the Machariel will get hit by the nerf bat at some point.



I'd actually be willing to think the other way around. Since battleships is something you DON'T want for any other purpose than train capital ships, Mission, bridge stuff or uber structure shooting, my bet goes on nice T1/T2 battleship revamp offering more dmg more tank and self defence capabilities.
Then Navy versions and pirate ones should get even better, and by the way if Machariel seems so OP it's just because almost all other BS's except a couple are pretty awful ships to fly, expensive to loose and extremely fragile to everything under their own size.


You forgot fast. It is insultingly fast as well, contributing to its OP'ness. P

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Songbird
#18 - 2012-11-20 18:36:24 UTC
mach has the same range bonus as the vargur - was that also a mistake - I think not - in fact if I am not mistaken the vargur came AFTER that falloff patch? Also the vaga has the same bonus - albeit for medium guns - is this also a mistake. Same for one of the subsystems of the loki.

I think the 10% bonus to falloff per level is legitimate - especially for a pirate ship which is a lot like a t2.5. Not as good as a t3 ship( if there were t3 BS) but better than a t2. As it is, the mach has a small ( I think 1/2 turret ) DPS advantage over the vargur and it also has speed and agility vs the vargur's better tank and tracking bonus.

Leave my mach alone you bastards!
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#19 - 2012-11-20 19:41:53 UTC
Songbird wrote:
mach has the same range bonus as the vargur - was that also a mistake - I think not - in fact if I am not mistaken the vargur came AFTER that falloff patch? Also the vaga has the same bonus - albeit for medium guns - is this also a mistake. Same for one of the subsystems of the loki.

I think the 10% bonus to falloff per level is legitimate - especially for a pirate ship which is a lot like a t2.5. Not as good as a t3 ship( if there were t3 BS) but better than a t2. As it is, the mach has a small ( I think 1/2 turret ) DPS advantage over the vargur and it also has speed and agility vs the vargur's better tank and tracking bonus.

Leave my mach alone you bastards!

My math told me 1 more effective turret... in addition to being much faster and more maneuverable with a higher sensor strength, more alpha strike, and I don't think it gets all that much less tank, if a person would be bothered to tank their Mach.

And I do think the 10% bonus to falloff is a bit much. With 800mm's and 2 TE's you get 89km falloff with Barrage. Your falloff is longer than your locking range. And your falloff with RF EMP (close range ammo) is 59km. That's some pretty ridiculous range for close range, damage type selectable ammo.
GreenSeed
#20 - 2012-11-21 03:47:04 UTC
if you are not using a sentry gila you are doing it wrong.

if you are using a sentry gila the npc changes don't affect you at all.

unless you are not snipping, in which case you need to learn to use sentries. :)
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