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Call For Discussion : CSM Voting Reform

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GallowsCalibrator
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#921 - 2012-11-02 12:17:18 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

By the way, stop calling Trebor's terrible idea STV-anything. It's not. It's simply his attempt at disenfranchising his political opponents (as he said outright in his OP).


I propose that it be called STD. Because it has about the same appeal.


I'm not sure that the current system needs any major changing - perhaps, maybe, MAYBE, if there's too much bleating of 'but highsec has no representation' reserve a single extra place for an assistant candidate/advisory position for a couple of major issues if they aren't represented in the main council, with the provo that these people aren't CSM members, but are expected to provide knowledge and info on topics.
Sidrat Flush
KarmaFleet
#922 - 2012-11-02 14:08:44 UTC
The number of votes per character should represent the total number of seats.

This will allow every individual their votes to make up a council of people they believe can work well together as well as with CCP.

Its time to stand up against the bad empire based CEO telling falsehoods about what new characters can accomplish and pushing them towards an in game experience of drudgery and loneliness keeping them in the shadow of ignorance for at nest their own profit at worse apathy towards all the experiences that Eve has to offer.
Steelzen
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#923 - 2012-11-16 18:58:16 UTC
One ISP one vote.

Keeps those that create / activate multiple accounts just prior to elections then letting them lapse afterwards from manipulating the system.

Looking at the past election results shows some interesting data concerning voting manipulation.
The election to a CSM position and the leader of the CSM needs to be a separate election, once the members of the CSM have been elected.

Better yet just disband the CSM, its not like they have been of much use other than trying to manipulate the game to the benefit of their own power block.

(We get enough of that ineffectual leadership in the RW don't care to deal with it in a game.)
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#924 - 2012-11-20 04:20:44 UTC
Steelzen wrote:
One ISP one vote.

Keeps those that create / activate multiple accounts just prior to elections then letting them lapse afterwards from manipulating the system.

Looking at the past election results shows some interesting data concerning voting manipulation.
The election to a CSM position and the leader of the CSM needs to be a separate election, once the members of the CSM have been elected.

Better yet just disband the CSM, its not like they have been of much use other than trying to manipulate the game to the benefit of their own power block.

(We get enough of that ineffectual leadership in the RW don't care to deal with it in a game.)


Golly I can't wait to get my vote invalidated because I haven't kept the same IP over the course of a five day period.

Frankly if I have 18 accounts I should have 18 shares in the direction of Eve. Your stupid assumption that a bunch of people reregged to vote is just silly. Did it happen on a small basis? I'm sure. Did it happen enough to swing any elections? I kinda doubt it.

I find it amusing that you guys can't wrap your mind around the fact that a person like The Mittani could rake in 10,000 votes honestly so you have to make up conspiracies. Whatever gets you to sleep at night.
Frying Doom
#925 - 2012-11-20 09:04:06 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Steelzen wrote:
One ISP one vote.

Keeps those that create / activate multiple accounts just prior to elections then letting them lapse afterwards from manipulating the system.

Looking at the past election results shows some interesting data concerning voting manipulation.
The election to a CSM position and the leader of the CSM needs to be a separate election, once the members of the CSM have been elected.

Better yet just disband the CSM, its not like they have been of much use other than trying to manipulate the game to the benefit of their own power block.

(We get enough of that ineffectual leadership in the RW don't care to deal with it in a game.)


Golly I can't wait to get my vote invalidated because I haven't kept the same IP over the course of a five day period.

Frankly if I have 18 accounts I should have 18 shares in the direction of Eve. Your stupid assumption that a bunch of people reregged to vote is just silly. Did it happen on a small basis? I'm sure. Did it happen enough to swing any elections? I kinda doubt it.

I find it amusing that you guys can't wrap your mind around the fact that a person like The Mittani could rake in 10,000 votes honestly so you have to make up conspiracies. Whatever gets you to sleep at night.

Actually it was not just the mittens vote that was suspect but if you look at the voting stats they don't lie, especially if you consider the alt accounts for voting are now over a year older at the last CSM election.

But I agree like a shareholder I have more than one share (account) so my vote should be worth accordingly more as I contribute more money to the upkeep of the game.
But seriously SmilingVagrant 18 accounts lol, how do you find the time I cant deal with more than I have now.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#926 - 2012-11-20 09:23:24 UTC
I hear tinfoils are back in fashion. Get your tinfoils here, $5 a pop. Only the finest quality tinfoil used! Guaranteed to block out the meanest of government mind control/reading rays!

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#927 - 2012-11-20 09:32:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Lord Zim wrote:
I hear tinfoils are back in fashion. Get your tinfoils here, $5 a pop. Only the finest quality tinfoil used! Guaranteed to block out the meanest of government mind control/reading rays!

Statistics do not lie. try looking them up some time.

Or the CSM is the most newbie friendly part of the game with people learning to vote before they are learning to fly.

And once again if it was not happening why is there so much resistance to preventing people activating accounts just to vote?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#928 - 2012-11-20 16:40:10 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Statistics do not lie. try looking them up some time.


Funny how for every time you actually point out statistics, you never cite them. Not that I care, because nobody that's free and clear of learning disabilities would ever take you seriously, but when you throw things like "statistics don't lie" and then very deliberately avoid citing the statistics you're talking about, it's more than a little dishonest.

If you have a hope of being taken seriously, cite the actual statistics. Don't just say "go look" or "they're out there", cite them. This is the internet. Link the stats you're using and actually put more than 5 words of detail into the conclusions you've drawn from them. Until you do that as a baseline, you might as well be howling about birth certificates and secret black helicopters.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#929 - 2012-11-20 17:18:16 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
I hear tinfoils are back in fashion. Get your tinfoils here, $5 a pop. Only the finest quality tinfoil used! Guaranteed to block out the meanest of government mind control/reading rays!

Statistics do not lie. try looking them up some time.

Tell me about these ... statistics.

Frying Doom wrote:
Or the CSM is the most newbie friendly part of the game with people learning to vote before they are learning to fly.

I've no idea what you're trying to get at here.

Frying Doom wrote:
And once again if it was not happening why is there so much resistance to preventing people activating accounts just to vote?

Nor here.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#930 - 2012-11-20 21:02:52 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
I hear tinfoils are back in fashion. Get your tinfoils here, $5 a pop. Only the finest quality tinfoil used! Guaranteed to block out the meanest of government mind control/reading rays!

Statistics do not lie. try looking them up some time.

Tell me about these ... statistics.

Frying Doom wrote:
Or the CSM is the most newbie friendly part of the game with people learning to vote before they are learning to fly.

I've no idea what you're trying to get at here.

Frying Doom wrote:
And once again if it was not happening why is there so much resistance to preventing people activating accounts just to vote?

Nor here.

Ok to simplify for you.

If there was not a problem of people activating old accounts to vote or creating new ones, there would not be so much resistance to measures being put in place to prevent this from occurring.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#931 - 2012-11-20 21:13:31 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
[Ok to simplify for you.

If there was not a problem of people activating old accounts to vote or creating new ones, there would not be so much resistance to measures being put in place to prevent this from occurring.


Hey look, if you want to oppress anyone who didn't have the good fortune to be in the game before (insert whatever fantasy cutoff time you'll invent this time around based on absolutely nothing), have at it. Don't be surprised if you get called on it, though.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#932 - 2012-11-20 23:08:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Frying Doom wrote:
If there was not a problem of people activating old accounts to vote or creating new ones, there would not be so much resistance to measures being put in place to prevent this from occurring.

So you're concerned with how people might be voting with more than 1 account, yet don't feel like coughing up any statistics backing up this concern as a major problem?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#933 - 2012-11-21 05:11:27 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Actually it was not just the mittens vote that was suspect but if you look at the voting stats they don't lie, especially if you consider the alt accounts for voting are now over a year older at the last CSM election.

But I agree like a shareholder I have more than one share (account) so my vote should be worth accordingly more as I contribute more money to the upkeep of the game.
But seriously SmilingVagrant 18 accounts lol, how do you find the time I cant deal with more than I have now.


I have two accounts.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#934 - 2012-11-21 05:12:15 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
If there was not a problem of people activating old accounts to vote or creating new ones, there would not be so much resistance to measures being put in place to prevent this from occurring.

So you're concerned with how people might be voting with more than 1 account, yet don't feel like coughing up any statistics backing up this concern as a major problem?


Because much like US voter fraud ... it's not actually a problem.
Frying Doom
#935 - 2012-11-21 05:39:42 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
If there was not a problem of people activating old accounts to vote or creating new ones, there would not be so much resistance to measures being put in place to prevent this from occurring.

So you're concerned with how people might be voting with more than 1 account, yet don't feel like coughing up any statistics backing up this concern as a major problem?


Because much like US voter fraud ... it's not actually a problem.

Any voter fraud is a problem and should be stamped out in the hope of obtaining a more representative CSM.

If we cannot have a balanced CSM, really what is there purpose, this years CSM is the most representative ever and it is still no way near the demographics within the game.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#936 - 2012-11-21 05:41:19 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
If there was not a problem of people activating old accounts to vote or creating new ones, there would not be so much resistance to measures being put in place to prevent this from occurring.

So you're concerned with how people might be voting with more than 1 account, yet don't feel like coughing up any statistics backing up this concern as a major problem?

Actually the voting statistics are were they have always been, the fact that the numbers of new accounts voting is high is well known, if you are unfamiliar with them please feel free to examine them yourself.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#937 - 2012-11-21 07:06:08 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Actually the voting statistics are were they have always been, the fact that the numbers of new accounts voting is high is well known, if you are unfamiliar with them please feel free to examine them yourself.


Cite the actual numbers of new voting accounts or shut the **** up.

I encourage everyone else to quote this on every reply he makes to this thread until he does that.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Frying Doom
#938 - 2012-11-21 07:12:38 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Actually the voting statistics are were they have always been, the fact that the numbers of new accounts voting is high is well known, if you are unfamiliar with them please feel free to examine them yourself.


Cite the actual numbers of new voting accounts or shut the **** up.

I encourage everyone else to quote this on every reply he makes to this thread until he does that.

I have.

But strange how every time closing this loop hole comes up people from the same group constantly shout it down.

Even without stats your own actions prove that change is needed.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#939 - 2012-11-21 07:33:55 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Actually the voting statistics are were they have always been, the fact that the numbers of new accounts voting is high is well known, if you are unfamiliar with them please feel free to examine them yourself.


Cite the actual numbers of new voting accounts or shut the **** up.

I encourage everyone else to quote this on every reply he makes to this thread until he does that.

I have.

But strange how every time closing this loop hole comes up people from the same group constantly shout it down.

Even without stats your own actions prove that change is needed.



Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I haven't seen those stats or tried to shout them down yet, so humor me and put up a link.

After all, people using extra accounts as some sort of voter fraud means they have to be paid accounts over a certain age. Since it takes thousands of votes to really sway things in the CSM, that means thousands of Plex or subscription payments. That is hundreds of billions of isk, or over $10,000.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#940 - 2012-11-21 07:35:10 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
I have.

But strange how every time closing this loop hole comes up people from the same group constantly shout it down.

Even without stats your own actions prove that change is needed.


Snow Axe wrote:
Cite the actual numbers of new voting accounts or shut the **** up..

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["