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With CrimeWatch 2.0 do you think we'll see a "police force" build up?

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Labatts Magu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-11-20 15:51:24 UTC
I was talking with my pal the other day about this very topic. With the ability to sell kill rights and all the other great changes CrimeWatch 2.0 brings, do you think we will see maybe an empire police force band together?

I personally know a few people that don't play EVE for the isk (I assume they are well funded as is) and are jumping at this very idea. It's pretty much beat downs in empire as they see it, sell them your kill right (assuming you lack the fight back) and watch as hungry "police" groups hunt down your foe and shed his tears for once.

Thoughts?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#2 - 2012-11-20 15:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Probably not.

What we will see is that same high sec PVP element of players become a defacto police force as they engage in the same kills and lulz goals as those who are already can-flipping, loot stealing and baiting, and playing aggression-FU right now. It's not going to be wanne-be PVPer versus missioner it's going to be wanna-be PVPer versus missioner and getting engaged by others who also want PVP.

Frankly, if it becomes set up in such a way that a hanger full of cheap frigates and PVP right outside the gate means a day of fun, it could turn out to be pretty good. Most of the real issues with PVP is that you have a ton of overhead to deal with just to shoot someone. Sure, "go to lowsec" the gate campers say, so you can be take out 5 to one at least, or "go to nullsec", the overlords say, so you can man their gank pipelines and pay rent to do so, keeping their deserted nullsec botting operations safe. But this dynamic appears to do more to drive people away from PVP than anything else.

Yeah, it's going to be like an FPS perhaps, where you log in, and shoot people and get shot. Most likely in more populated systems where all kinds of tomfoolery are already found, but in the end, only those who are hiding behind PVP as an excuse to grief will be unhappy. But even they might have an existential moment and realize that this really is just a game after all and a good time might be had by everybody.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
AndromacheDarkstar
Integrated Insterstellar Holdings
#3 - 2012-11-20 15:58:33 UTC
I really hope this does happen, it would make the game allot more immersive and fun if you had actuall players enforcing at least some part of the games laws, plus more PVP is always good.
Unit CA108AF
Unit Commune
#4 - 2012-11-20 16:02:43 UTC
Except for the whole, you know, not being able to kill in high sec anyway? Even if you get the kill rights, that just prevents your sec status from being hit if you engage in low sec. That doesn't mean you can magically pop anyone you want in high sec without Concord. You'll still get the Dokken if you shoot someone in highsec without when you aren't at war or they aren't flashy red.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#5 - 2012-11-20 16:05:56 UTC
If hisec people could be organized they would already be. What can happen is merc market finally going live but again, merc corps already exist so it will only be a boost to existing thing.

Also kill rights don't matter outside hisec so good luck with "police force" executing their "rights" anywhere else.

Invalid signature format
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#6 - 2012-11-20 16:07:47 UTC
It's not like us Pirates have Alts to go to Jita for us Blink

Oh wait Roll

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
oniplE
MeMento.
#7 - 2012-11-20 16:11:04 UTC
Unit CA108AF wrote:
Except for the whole, you know, not being able to kill in high sec anyway? Even if you get the kill rights, that just prevents your sec status from being hit if you engage in low sec. That doesn't mean you can magically pop anyone you want in high sec without Concord. You'll still get the Dokken if you shoot someone in highsec without when you aren't at war or they aren't flashy red.

From the dev blog on bounties:

"The second way is in how the kill right is used. This is changing from previous functionality. If you have a kill right against someone, you can activate that kill right to make your target a suspect (i.e. give him a Suspect Flag, as explained in the crimewatch blog). This allows anyone in the vicinity of the suspect to engage him legally."

And here:
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63443/1/logo2_flags2consequences.png

Suspect flag = "Can be freely attacked by other players"
Labatts Magu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-11-20 16:14:35 UTC
Unit CA108AF wrote:
Except for the whole, you know, not being able to kill in high sec anyway? Even if you get the kill rights, that just prevents your sec status from being hit if you engage in low sec. That doesn't mean you can magically pop anyone you want in high sec without Concord. You'll still get the Dokken if you shoot someone in highsec without when you aren't at war or they aren't flashy red.


From : http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73443

Quote:
Legality Flag: This flag exists to penalize those who commit criminal/suspicious actions in Empire space (high and low sec). A character with a Legal flag is always a legal target for offense from all other players


I assume that a band of brothers (or sisters) would hunt down these flags for empire pvp ;)

As for selling kill rights, concord (thanks to the new bounty system) won't be doing anything, and once the player being hunted shoots back.. well, it's on for the corp mates ;)

[I could be 100% wrong on both these though (not the smartest cookie)]
Labatts Magu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-11-20 16:16:51 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
If hisec people could be organized they would already be. What can happen is merc market finally going live but again, merc corps already exist so it will only be a boost to existing thing.

Also kill rights don't matter outside hisec so good luck with "police force" executing their "rights" anywhere else.


I think under the old (current as of today) system, empire players couldn't be organized without being in the same corp or else everyone would get concord all up on them. With the new system, groups of players can roam for suspect players and hunt them down.
Knot'Kul Sun
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-11-20 16:32:53 UTC
I want the right to web people for speeding without being concorded.

'Do you, sir, realize the dangers of doing 500m/s in an interon while in the frigate lane?!'
oniplE
MeMento.
#11 - 2012-11-20 16:37:03 UTC
When you think about it, this doesn't just open up the profession of a "police force" but also being a "professional victim".

Using these mechanics: "If the target manages to escape and the Suspect flag timer (15 minutes) lapses, the kill right is still available to be purchased (activated) later on."

I'll get kill rights on myself with an alt, sell the kill rights. Then i'll fly around in empire with 5 warp core stabs in the low slots to bait people to buy the kill rights. Escape due to WCS', wait 15 minutes, repeat. It's not going to be very profitable if the kill rights are 1 mil a piece, but still :D
Labatts Magu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-11-20 16:40:28 UTC
oniplE wrote:
When you think about it, this doesn't just open up the profession of a "police force" but also being a "professional victim".

Using these mechanics: "If the target manages to escape and the Suspect flag timer (15 minutes) lapses, the kill right is still available to be purchased (activated) later on."

I'll get kill rights on myself with an alt, sell the kill rights. Then i'll fly around in empire with 5 warp core stabs in the low slots to bait people to buy the kill rights. Escape due to WCS', wait 15 minutes, repeat. It's not going to be very profitable if the kill rights are 1 mil a piece, but still :D


Another way for players to scam other players ;) I like it ;)
Unit CA108AF
Unit Commune
#13 - 2012-11-20 16:40:43 UTC
oniplE wrote:
Unit CA108AF wrote:
Except for the whole, you know, not being able to kill in high sec anyway? Even if you get the kill rights, that just prevents your sec status from being hit if you engage in low sec. That doesn't mean you can magically pop anyone you want in high sec without Concord. You'll still get the Dokken if you shoot someone in highsec without when you aren't at war or they aren't flashy red.

From the dev blog on bounties:

"The second way is in how the kill right is used. This is changing from previous functionality. If you have a kill right against someone, you can activate that kill right to make your target a suspect (i.e. give him a Suspect Flag, as explained in the crimewatch blog). This allows anyone in the vicinity of the suspect to engage him legally."

And here:
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63443/1/logo2_flags2consequences.png

Suspect flag = "Can be freely attacked by other players"


Then why are they making this out to be some jawesome thing for pubbies to get revenge when it'll just make them easier to grief legally? That's stupid.
Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#14 - 2012-11-20 18:21:35 UTC
<-- Thinks of a fun idea of a corrupt police corp patrolling hisec "taking down crime". Thinks of the profit one can make....


then realizes sec status is low and is to lazy to get it higher. oh well... a pirates life for me! Pirate

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#15 - 2012-11-20 19:37:49 UTC
I have been considering a scenario.
I am not sure how it will all play out, but here goes:

1. Assume you acquire the killrights for a substantial amount of the suicide gankers in Uedama.
This is pretty much a group from goons and some crew called Initiative Mercenaries, or some derivative of that name.
2. Assume you magically find one of their safespots where they mass just before moving in on some freighter they have bumped 200+ km from the gate.
3. Assume you have a sizeable crew of people you trust implicitly.
4. Assume you are in an Arazu or some other cloaky tackler at said safespot.
5. You decloak, as well as all your other friends, (maybe in 110K EHP, 500 DPS Covops Proteus), just as you activate the killrights making these asshats Suspects and flashy.
6. Assume you get lucky and able to get a tackle before one or all of the asshats warp out.

Then, and only then, can you kill one or two of these guys and then killrights are valuable.

But frankly, there are so many holes and game mechanic issues in those assumptions, that I can't see it happening.
Finding pods in space, (because these guys are not dumb enough to hang out in their Taolos or Tornados in space), is essentially impossible if they are warping from safe spot to safe spot.
Also, the lag between decloaking an Arazu and locking is so long the criminals will easily warp out.
And if the gankers choose to stay and fight, rest assured those boats you are targeting are not set for ganking, but for PvP, and their OOC logis are inbound. It won't matter if the logi's go flashy, because the gankers won't engage unless they are pretty sure can win the fight.

What is far more likely is the sociopaths will make a mockery of this new Crimewatch, and with the bounty system, we will simply see a lot more kills in high sec, with the sociopaths just gloating in local chat.
DerArt1st
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-11-20 19:46:53 UTC  |  Edited by: DerArt1st
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I have been considering a scenario.
I am not sure how it will all play out, but here goes:

1. Assume you acquire the killrights for a substantial amount of the suicide gankers in Uedama.
This is pretty much a group from goons and some crew called Initiative Mercenaries, or some derivative of that name.
2. Assume you magically find one of their safespots where they mass just before moving in on some freighter they have bumped 200+ km from the gate.
3. Assume you have a sizeable crew of people you trust implicitly.
4. Assume you are in an Arazu or some other cloaky tackler at said safespot.
5. You decloak, as well as all your other friends, (maybe in 110K EHP, 500 DPS Covops Proteus), just as you activate the killrights making these asshats Suspects and flashy.
6. Assume you get lucky and able to get a tackle before one or all of the asshats warp out.

Then, and only then, can you kill one or two of these guys and then killrights are valuable.

But frankly, there are so many holes and game mechanic issues in those assumptions, that I can't see it happening.
Finding pods in space, (because these guys are not dumb enough to hang out in their Taolos or Tornados in space), is essentially impossible if they are warping from safe spot to safe spot.
Also, the lag between decloaking an Arazu and locking is so long the criminals will easily warp out.
And if the gankers choose to stay and fight, rest assured those boats you are targeting are not set for ganking, but for PvP, and their OOC logis are inbound. It won't matter if the logi's go flashy, because the gankers won't engage unless they are pretty sure can win the fight.

What is far more likely is the sociopaths will make a mockery of this new Crimewatch, and with the bounty system, we will simply see a lot more kills in high sec, with the sociopaths just gloating in local chat.


Nice thinking, but way to much. Those guys are mostly allready at -10.0 and free to shoot anyway.

I think this patch will be great first... but after a while everybody realizes that he will get spanked in highsec if they do any lowsec pvp so in the end = less pvp.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#17 - 2012-11-20 19:55:29 UTC
DerArt1st wrote:


Nice thinking, but way to much. Those guys are mostly allready at -10.0 and free to shoot anyway.

I think this patch will be great first... but after a while everybody realizes that he will get spanked in highsec if they do any lowsec pvp so in the end = less pvp.


I think you re-enforced my point.

If you guys are already flashy and available as targets in high sec, and are already killing without any repercussions, then the new Crimewatch Suspect and killrights add nothing more, and you will continue to run without any repercussions, and this whole Crimewatch feature is complete garbage.
DerArt1st
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-11-20 20:00:36 UTC  |  Edited by: DerArt1st
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
DerArt1st wrote:


Nice thinking, but way to much. Those guys are mostly allready at -10.0 and free to shoot anyway.

I think this patch will be great first... but after a while everybody realizes that he will get spanked in highsec if they do any lowsec pvp so in the end = less pvp.


I think you re-enforced my point.

If you guys are already flashy and available as targets in high sec, and are already killing without any repercussions, then the new Crimewatch Suspect and killrights add nothing more, and you will continue to run without any repercussions, and this whole Crimewatch feature is complete garbage.


Correct.

Makes looting afterwards a bit harder i assume.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-11-20 22:36:13 UTC
God I hope so. Most noble E-Samurai types are absolute rubbish at fitting ships.
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#20 - 2012-11-21 00:09:26 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
God I hope so. Most noble E-Samurai types are absolute rubbish at fitting ships.



They will probably give up after a week of getting curb stomped Lol

After that all that will remain is the "leet" RR brigades camping around for opportunistic kills.
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