Warfare & Tactics

Normally, i agree with and thoroughly enjoy Trinkets comments > but I do disagree that OGB is the largest variable 'holding back FW' fights these days mainly because there are far greater evils out there imho.....

Will caveat this by saying 95% of the time i fly small/very small gangs which is very much alive and kicking in FW right now and i thoroughly recommend it to anyone considering that style of play, and the below is purely from that perspective.

Boosts get us fights we otherwise would not get or could not take.

- Its FAR too easy in EVE for anyone with half a brain to avoid PvP and 90% of the battle is getting the fight in the first place:

- Without boosts, you simply cant fight 2v1 outnumbered in a minor plex unless your ganking complete nubs. I god-damn-guarantee that if you bring a friend and try and fight 2v2 in that same situation that you wont get that fight. Incumbents will run away 8/10 times by virtue of the fact that you are charging into them and must have gang/ecm/something.

- In plexes, it's about having an edge and getting your target(s) to see whats coming and think ''we can take that'' and sticking around/engaging in the first place. Most people seeing an equal (or perceived equal or greater) force showing up on d-scan will leave and/or ship up immediately.

- Re-read Christine Peeveepeeskis response in this thread - none of that very small gang they run would be possible without boosts. I applaud them for hanging around and having the cahunas to do what they do. I'm not convinced that a lot of the general public decrying boosts as an absolute i-win button have ever put themselves in that situation.

That's my own very small gang 2 cents on OGB, and i fully appreciate there will be a much larger majority of F1 monkeys and fleet members that wont see eye-to-eye with my selfish perspective on this one. Its an opinion, and im not going to argue it on here but i think its worth putting forward that there are definitely upsides to boosts and that boosts are not always the Jimmy Saville of small scale PvP that people can make them out to be.


What IS holding FW back (in terms of the larger 10-40 man gang and plex fights that OP refers) is CCPs quite frankly ridiculous stance that the underdog should be disadvantaged further in FW. People wanted consequence and I guess I can understand that but it has gone too far. The underdog should be getting advantaged so they have a perceivable hope of no longer being the underdog and decide to fight. Its so simple.

It's this that is primarily 'holding back FW' and not booster alts Trinket.

The reason we used to get those larger plex fights was because there was an Amarr opponent to fight that was capable and interested and willing to FC and field the numbers consistently.

Larger gang plex fighting on that scale began to die out when CCP handicapped the old school Amarr corps and they left. They were replaced (thank the lord) by people like Agony and others that have been amazing for the small/micro gang PvP environment and the medium/larger gang stuff has certainly blipped with subsequent patches (and im certainly praying that it will blip up again on the 4th December) but until they change the underlying issue and encourage the underdog we simply wont see those awesome medium gang plex fights that OP mentions (luv u Dev.xx) consistently and regularly running in the way that we all want.

The new ships, toys, and the ECM nerf are very welcome and should definitely provide a boost to FW pew-pew as every new patch does but my concern is that until the underlying issue of disadvantaging the disadvantaged is fixed it could all be too temporary.

Over the last few months ive devised many boosted or overtanked or overnanod or oversized prop thrasher fits to tangle alone against 2 or more targets with complementary pvp partner setups in minor plexes. Sometimes they work, sometimes they dont. One things for sure, without boosts they can just sit in there by themselves.

Removing boosts doesnt change that in the slightest, it just narrows the engagement envelope of those that have boosts. In theory it should increase the envelope of those that dont have boosts to engage and im willing to see how it goes. Though outside a few personalities there really isnt that many people who wonder round with their boosters relative to the unboosted fw pvp out there.

As for people avoiding players with OGB, ive had dozens of fights with the same pair as we both experimented, me with my boosted thrasher, him with his tackle frig and ewar dessy. Without boosts, i wouldve lost one ship to him and then only engaged if i had 3 people, as in, he would warp away and there would be zero pvp.

It is rather disingenuous to point to RTS as embodying the OGB issue. If Trinkets avoids Auga and RTS, it's just as true that I avoid Johnpaul and whatever system he happens to be. People will accept OGB wherever and whenever they are offered. I'm no better then you and you're no better then me in that regard. It's silly to point fingers when everyone does 'it'. It annoys me though that so many Minmatar will pound on their chests about how organized they are and yet criticize Amarr as 'cheaters' when they also show the same cohesion. Whatever.

What also irks me about OGB is the sheer amount of the boosts and the synergy you can build around it. I have a clone with HG Halos for example. My wolf normally has a sig radius of 32m and my SFI has a 96m. The clone makes those radii go to 24m and 72m respectively. A Loki booster with a skirmish implant doubles the effect of the halos. The wolf and SFI become 16m and 48m. That's ridiculous. Can't decide between snakes, halos, or any number of other implants? You don't have too! Get one booster alt tucked away in a POS and you can have it all. All at little risk and for less cost in some cases.

Lastly, you can only catch people off guard with OGB for a short time. Once your boosters are recognized, people will take them into consideration before engaging you.

Yep - sorry Dev, i didn't aim to derail the thread > What i was trying to say was that i disagreed that OGB was the major issue facing FW (and limiting those medium gangs that your original poast was about).

I think the deeper damage done to the broader Amarr set-up by further handicapping the underdog was the far greater limiter of those kind of fights.

I did read a post (at work so cant find it) by Poetic that said he thought the new system seemed to be working better/more fairly so maybe we will see a return towards the status quo and those larger plex fights catalysed by the upcoming patch? I certainly hope so!

HAHAAHAAA!!!!! Says a guy who will absolutely never, ever undock so much as a vanilla t1 frigate without having OGB in position, attempting to portray himself as person who actually wants pvp...

I dont think ive ever undocked in a vanilla t1 frigate, so your point of reference is just wild nonsensical gibberish as per usual.

I do hope you give your corp mate, whatshisface, a hard time since he also runs with boosts all the time. Im sure you complain really loudly when he pops his booster into a leadership position in your little gangs. You cant even complain about large alliances any more since you are in an alliance that has a cap fleet and also has had a supercarrier :)

Oh well, no one ever said damar couldnt do good hypocrisy. He delivers!

I was not even aware the alliance had any other really active members than Nasranites as show by this handy graphical display where it is quite easy to see the exact date we joined the alliance for political reasons.

(the above was written with tongue firmly in the cheek)

On more serious note, I of course fly with links when they are available since 100% of my enemies fly with ones but unlike you, I can actually take fights when I dont have them.

Hell, some of the gallente players are actually so bad that multiple guys with links cannot kill me. Lets take for example Killer Rob used by the Goonswarm alt alliance which jumps between systems in Essence region faster than an STD rampages through a developing country.

So we both see boosters the same way. Only real difference is that im never in the position where i have to take a fight without one since, you know, the booster is my alt, well main, since crosi is a falcon alt.

The only benefit to making station lockouts part of the upgrade path would be the ability to dock and repair. That in turn would put stresss on the opponent to keep systems upgraded.