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RIDDLE: What has no weight, 2 faces, a brown nose, 1 big mouth, 1 big head, 18 feet but wont walk?

First post
Author
Hratli Smirks
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#181 - 2011-10-20 20:56:39 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:


But I do stand by my view that the "little guy" is consistently being ignored.

Issler



Little guys don't fly Gallente? Use hybrid guns? Get 0wned by supercapitals? Find 0.0 to be largely inaccessible and generally a bag of dicks anyway?


Yours in Christ,

H. Ratli Smirks, Esq.
Hero of 49-
TexasFire
Texas Deep Space
#182 - 2011-10-20 21:27:52 UTC
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Want useful input post a useful topic. You just posted a haughty whine thread and feel particularly pompous doing so. I am under no obligation to take garbage like this horrible thread seriously and I don't choose to! If you want to address concerns or comments about CSM activities there's a forum for that (two!) and this ain't it.

So in conclusion,


Fart.


Are the CSM in danger of losing touch with the community, just as CCP have done?


The present CSM is not in touch with the EVE community. The EVE community is not just 0.0.

Velyks
Free Real Estate
#183 - 2011-10-20 21:35:51 UTC
TexasFire wrote:
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Want useful input post a useful topic. You just posted a haughty whine thread and feel particularly pompous doing so. I am under no obligation to take garbage like this horrible thread seriously and I don't choose to! If you want to address concerns or comments about CSM activities there's a forum for that (two!) and this ain't it.

So in conclusion,


Fart.


Are the CSM in danger of losing touch with the community, just as CCP have done?


The present CSM is not in touch with the EVE community. The EVE community is not just 0.0.



That may be, but it is the only one that matters.

Maybe when you little scrublets set up yo' game and get on my level I'll take you seriously.

:pringles:

http://i.imgur.com/JyLjl.jpg

David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#184 - 2011-10-20 21:55:54 UTC
TexasFire wrote:
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Want useful input post a useful topic. You just posted a haughty whine thread and feel particularly pompous doing so. I am under no obligation to take garbage like this horrible thread seriously and I don't choose to! If you want to address concerns or comments about CSM activities there's a forum for that (two!) and this ain't it.

So in conclusion,


Fart.


Are the CSM in danger of losing touch with the community, just as CCP have done?


The present CSM is not in touch with the EVE community. The EVE community is not just 0.0.



>25% of highsec are an alt of a nullsec alliance member.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#185 - 2011-10-20 22:05:10 UTC
The CSM is a good idea. Electing representatives to condense player concerns, requests, and complaints into something more manageable should allow CCP to respond faster and more efficiently to problems.

That's not what I've seen happen in the short time I've been in the Eve community. Since I learned what the CSM is and what it's supposed to do, I haven't seen it produce anything like the intended result. That's not to say it's been useless--I feel the CSM did quite a bit to help resolve issues and answer questions during monocle-gate--but it certainly hasn't lived up to my expectations.

The problem here is two-fold: First of all, CCP has largely ignored the desires of the playerbase, and instead pursued their "vision" of Eve, resulting in Incarna, Dust 514, and a bunch of other things that, while interesting, don't exactly address long-standing problems with the core gameplay of Eve, that being all things spaceship. Second, the CSM elections *are* just a popularity contest where only those who know someone running a campaign are voting. Your typical highsec dweller has no idea what's going on with the CSM elections and overlooks them.

How do we fix this? I think CCP has finally gotten a clue and at least appears to be looking to restore their commitment to the players with the winter expansion. We'll see how well they do at communicating with us and giving us better content in the coming months.

As for the CSM, there's no easy fix. CCP needs to step up and try to get more people involved in the elections. Right now information on the CSM largely exists in the forums, which are completely optional and don't appeal to a lot of people who play Eve. Let's face it: this is a MUCH smaller community than Eve itself. If we could find a way to move the political discourse into the game and get more players involved, we'd see a more diverse voting group and possibly a much more balanced mix of CSM members.

I could care less whether the CSM gets to go to Iceland. That's a perk that CCP should consider doing away with if they are having budget problems. It's not profitable at all, and doesn't make much business sense when you're struggling to maintain productivity levels.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#186 - 2011-10-20 22:11:21 UTC
David Carel wrote:
TexasFire wrote:

The present CSM is not in touch with the EVE community. The EVE community is not just 0.0.


>25% of highsec are an alt of a nullsec alliance member.


Meaning that >50% aren't. Outside of the nullsec voting blocs, you've got Incursion fleets, mission runners, high sec industrialists, wormhole corps, faction warfare, pirates, mercenaries, and independents all largely left without representation. Most of them don't vote because they don't know to vote. I was playing during the last CSM election and had no idea it was happening. CCP isn't doing a good job of informing the players.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#187 - 2011-10-20 22:19:20 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
David Carel wrote:
TexasFire wrote:

The present CSM is not in touch with the EVE community. The EVE community is not just 0.0.


>25% of highsec are an alt of a nullsec alliance member.


Meaning that >50% aren't. Outside of the nullsec voting blocs, you've got Incursion fleets, mission runners, high sec industrialists, wormhole corps, faction warfare, pirates, mercenaries, and independents all largely left without representation. Most of them don't vote because they don't know to vote. I was playing during the last CSM election and had no idea it was happening. CCP isn't doing a good job of informing the players.


No, 25% are in nullsec IIRC. Means that >50% are nullsec residents.
Velyks
Free Real Estate
#188 - 2011-10-20 22:20:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Velyks
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:

That's not what I've seen happen in the short time I've been in the Eve community.


Well bang goes your opinion. Having been here for 5 years now I can wholeheartedly say that this is the only CSM that has actually done something.

FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
[quote=David Carel][quote=TexasFire]
Most of them don't vote because they don't know to vote.


Someone who is too blind to look at the giant posters on the login screen, the eve online website, the forums, or even local chat, probably isn't the kind of person who is interested in the community of eve or the direction the game is taking in the first place and thus doesn't need to be represented by the CSM

http://i.imgur.com/JyLjl.jpg

Lee'lei
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#189 - 2011-10-20 22:21:39 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
David Carel wrote:
TexasFire wrote:

The present CSM is not in touch with the EVE community. The EVE community is not just 0.0.


>25% of highsec are an alt of a nullsec alliance member.


Meaning that >50% aren't. Outside of the nullsec voting blocs, you've got Incursion fleets, mission runners, high sec industrialists, wormhole corps, faction warfare, pirates, mercenaries, and independents all largely left without representation. Most of them don't vote because they don't know to vote. I was playing during the last CSM election and had no idea it was happening. CCP isn't doing a good job of informing the players.



are you kidding me? are you actually saying what you are saying? I want to rip my hair out.

CCP had:

Massive splash images over the login screen
Constant blogs and links on the front page
Stuff EVERYWHERE over the forum
Even billboards in space had CSM banners
Constant news updated regarding the CSM

Just because you don't bother to look past your mission running overview doesn't mean that ccp didn't make an effort, they could have probably replaced the entire background of the launcher with the letters "CSM" and you would have still ignored it.


Try taking an active part in something other than mission running you filthy highsec scrub nerd virgin.
David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#190 - 2011-10-20 22:27:47 UTC
It's simple, really.
Eve is about Nullsec.
Everything else is just support.
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#191 - 2011-10-20 22:41:15 UTC
change all eve to nullsec except for concord sov systems

done
David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#192 - 2011-10-20 22:42:22 UTC
Supported.
David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#193 - 2011-10-20 22:42:42 UTC
Supported, but give Concord a 1.0 region.
Hylo Verr
EVE Corporation 7512
#194 - 2011-10-20 22:55:28 UTC
People who hide in hi-sec and wine that CSM doesn't represent them while wanting to remain a no risk carebear is kind of pathetic, not to mention high-sec is eye stabbingly boring . I've only been playing the game for 3 months and 2 1/2 of that has been in null sec. instead of wining about CSM why don't you come on out to null-sec and have some fun

Words are Cheap, Blood is Costly

Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#195 - 2011-10-20 23:06:58 UTC
Harm Pit wrote:
* I can provide links to CSM members padding their CVs (and indeed misrepresnting her role at CCP and eventualy being let go due to an NDA breech.)


You also realize that that particular member of the CSM was, in fact, the high-sec care-bear representative that had barely any idea how most of the game mechanics function and was also mentally unstable? Correct?

You also do realize that the CSM members are human beings and regular players like the rest of us, not demi-Gods or "professionals," correct?

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#196 - 2011-10-20 23:50:19 UTC
Harm Pit wrote:


Beter still, lets participate in the democrat process by NOT voting. Surely if only a few percent of the eve subscriber base vote in an election that is practicaly thrust down your throat by CCP every election, it will demonstrate that the CSM is not wanted and has no mandate to represent us.

Oh wait, over 90% of the playerbase didnt vote for the present members. The majority DONT care or activley DONT WANT the CSM.

Sack em. Hire devs.


If 90% don't participate, it doesn't mean the CSM weren't elected democratically. It means 90% were either ignorant of or apathetic about the election.

Choosing not to participate is informed apathy, it doesn't signal disapproval of the process.

If you really do care, you would vote and organize others to vote in a similar manner. Actively campaigning against the vote is contrary to your cause. You just don't realize it.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#197 - 2011-10-21 02:15:12 UTC
Lee'lei wrote:
Massive splash images over the login screen


None that I remember seeing. Of course, after months of seeing paid advertisements on the login screen, CCP did a pretty good job of training me to ignore that box and just log in. I might have looked right through it.

One of the common lessons of web design is that you can no longer use content on certain parts of pages any more because ad placement in those areas has become so common that people have learned to simply ignore it. Same goes for the login screen: if you're going to spam it with magazine ads, special pricing deals, and various other crap, don't expect people to see important information when you present it in the same way.

Lee'lei wrote:
Constant blogs and links on the front page
Stuff EVERYWHERE over the forum


The website and the forum are separate from the game, and you shouldn't expect people to visit them in order to be informed of something like the CSM elections.

Lee'lei wrote:
Even billboards in space had CSM banners
Constant news updated regarding the CSM


I almost never see billboards.

Lee'lei wrote:
Just because you don't bother to look past your mission running overview doesn't mean that ccp didn't make an effort, they could have probably replaced the entire background of the launcher with the letters "CSM" and you would have still ignored it.


You're right, I probably would have ignored that, or at least stopped with "wtf does CSM mean?" CCP does a ****-poor job of communicating the existence and purpose of the CSM to new players.

Lee'lei wrote:
Try taking an active part in something other than mission running you filthy highsec scrub nerd virgin.


I'm not even going to bother. That quizzical "wtf is wrong with you?" look on my toon's face...That's for people like you.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#198 - 2011-10-21 02:17:45 UTC
Hylo Verr wrote:
People who hide in hi-sec and wine that CSM doesn't represent them while wanting to remain a no risk carebear is kind of pathetic, not to mention high-sec is eye stabbingly boring . I've only been playing the game for 3 months and 2 1/2 of that has been in null sec. instead of wining about CSM why don't you come on out to null-sec and have some fun

There's much fun to be had in high sec without being a risk-averse carebear. In some ways, it's far more entertaining than the n+1 combat that frequently goes on in null. There's merit to both, but I like small gang warfare better and that's more common where I am.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Darius III
Interstellar eXodus
The Initiative.
#199 - 2011-10-21 04:10:58 UTC
Taxtro Grave wrote:
I've been playing for over 6 years now, and I have yet to vote in the CSM. It's just like the high school prom's King and Queen. Only the most popular win, not who is actually good for the job.

Disgusting.


That is untrue at every turn my good man, let me assure you. The CSM isn't Prom King material: Underdogs can come out of nowhere and be in Iceland by July (even last place alts I am told) and believe it or not-some of Eve's best and brightest are in there.

I have a message for the OP

Hmmm

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#200 - 2011-10-21 10:31:20 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Lee'lei wrote:
Massive splash images over the login screen


None that I remember seeing. Of course, after months of seeing paid advertisements on the login screen, CCP did a pretty good job of training me to ignore that box and just log in. I might have looked right through it.

One of the common lessons of web design is that you can no longer use content on certain parts of pages any more because ad placement in those areas has become so common that people have learned to simply ignore it. Same goes for the login screen: if you're going to spam it with magazine ads, special pricing deals, and various other crap, don't expect people to see important information when you present it in the same way.

(snipped the rest of your reasoning for ignoring several more contact methods)



Well then, where exactly would you propose CCP put messages about the CSM so that it catches the eye of the willfully ignorant, head-in-the-sand players that can't be bothered to pay attention to all the smoke signals being sent their way?

If you care enough about the game, inform yourself by reading the login messages, forums, devblogs and website.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.