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Stop Tiericide After Cruisers!
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Elmo Zumwalt
Elmo's Roughnecks
#1 - 2012-11-20 03:01:50 UTC
Hello. I rarely post on the forums, but I felt that this point should be raised to those at CCP who are in charge of making these changes. I am making this thread because I feel that Tiericide is something that should be stopped after the upcoming cruiser rebalancing.

My reasoning for this is fairly simple. I feel that by removing tiers of battlecruisers and battleships, you will be accomplishing the opposite of the intended goal of tiericide (which was to get more people to fly more than a handful of selected "good" ships) . Instead, variety of ship types will be reduced, and people will probably just find the optimal ship and fly it en mass. That is because many players generally take two factors into account when choosing to fly a ship, and they are: (i) cost effectiveness of a ship, and (ii) how "good" is a ship (ie, is it FOTM?)

My main beef with tiericide comes from factor #1, the cost effectiveness of a ship. Typically the current trend with tiericide (using mining barges and upcoming cruiser changes as a guide) is that the new ships will cost as much as the top tier currently is. The Retriever and the Procurer generally cost about what the Covetor costs now, and other cruisers are getting boosted in cost as well (logistic cruisers going from 4 mil to 8 mil in cost). When this happens with battlecruisers and battleships, you will see prices of tier 1 battlecruisers go from 30-ish mil to over 80 mil a piece. The same with tier 1 battleships will occur, for example a Dominix would hypothetically go from ~95 mil to closer to 250 mil a piece!!!

I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of paying 80 million isk for a Cyclone or a Brutix, and I don't feel like paying 200+ mil for what is currently a tier 1 or 2 battleship. By implementing tiericide, CCP will effectively be creating huge gaps in ship costs. After cruisers, which will cost around 8 mil, a battlecruiser will cost 80 mil, and a battleship almost a quarter billion. I feel that by leaving the current tier system in and balancing the ships within tiers, the players will have greater variety of ships and thus have more fun playing EvE.

Yes, I feel that tiericide was necessary for cruisers, but that is because the price difference between the different tiers of cruisers was negligible in the grand scheme of things. The price differences between tiers of battlecruisers and especially battleships is enough to warrant the difference of effectiveness among the various tiers of ships. By making poorer and more noobish characters pay a quarter billion isk for a battleship will keep them out of the more expensive tech 1 hulls and hinder their gameplay experience.
Dori Tos
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-11-20 05:12:37 UTC
Dude,what are you waiting for? spend all your iskies into tier 1-2 cruisers and battleships now, then when the tiercide hits you'll have almost tripled your wallet and won't ever have have to worry about ship cost anymore.

I'm delicious.
Ellente Fervens
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-11-20 05:22:43 UTC
er....I've not bought a drake recently...but were they not around the 45-55 mill mark fully T2 fitted? This is certainly the mark I'd have thought CCP would be aiming at on price.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2012-11-20 13:28:41 UTC
So...we should continue to never fly most battlecruisers and battleships, as they are currently pretty terrible, because you're afraid of the prices going up?

Wouldn't you rather have more ships that won't get you laughed out of fleets/incursions/whatever it is you do?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#5 - 2012-11-20 13:45:14 UTC
a drake fully fitted is more like 65mil and all tier 2 bc's will get nerfed in slots and HP so the mineral cost may drop a little anyway.
But this is no bad thing as cruisers will be more cost effective now so they might get flown more over bc's ... this is a good thing.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#6 - 2012-11-20 14:37:31 UTC
**** no!!

Tiericide has to go ALL the way!!! It's the best way to make Eve a balanced game with versatility and making sure bigger isn't always better... Especially cost has NO factor in game balance as long cost itself is balanced towards the ship class.

Pinky
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-11-20 20:20:01 UTC
All battleships will be equal to tier 2 in cost I thought?

Anyway I would love to see a dominix on par with a megathron. Maybe the raven wouldn't be such a piece of **** for pvp. These market spikes are all due to speculation and will settle in time. Perhaps they may be permanently slightly higher but watch as they crash again. It will all be just a sudden rush of people wanting to test out new boats.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#8 - 2012-11-20 21:08:46 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
All battleships will be equal to tier 2 in cost I thought?

Anyway I would love to see a dominix on par with a megathron. Maybe the raven wouldn't be such a piece of **** for pvp. These market spikes are all due to speculation and will settle in time. Perhaps they may be permanently slightly higher but watch as they crash again. It will all be just a sudden rush of people wanting to test out new boats.


This brings up the question - With tier-cide will Tier 3 BC's be brought down in price?
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-11-20 21:24:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
I undestand what you are thinking but, it is not the way...

The tiercide must go all the way to the capitals and the rebalance should also be done on T2, capitals and Super-Capitals... ( And POS ) ...

But As you, I hope that the prices got rounded down, becouse a rize would prevent people to get them... CCP can pick the avarage price by the mineral amount on the construction of it, it would be fair to rise it only if the ship gets buffed... The idea is not to prevent people to fly them, but to give different options to them... not based on ISK but on playstyle...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#10 - 2012-11-21 08:40:09 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
**** no!!

It's the best way to make Eve a balanced game with versatility and making sure bigger isn't always better... Especially cost has NO factor in game balance as long cost itself is balanced towards the ship class.

Pinky


What blasphemy is this..... purge this pro rifter ganking caps heretic with fire.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-11-21 08:55:03 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
a drake fully fitted is more like 65mil and all tier 2 bc's will get nerfed in slots and HP so the mineral cost may drop a little anyway.
But this is no bad thing as cruisers will be more cost effective now so they might get flown more over bc's ... this is a good thing.


drake costs closer to 100 mill to buy and fit
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#12 - 2012-11-21 09:26:05 UTC
I've got to admit, I never considered that the price on the ships would change. Not so directly anyway, and probably because the material cost of building them I'm guessing will stay about the same. Not looked into that though.

All other factors aside, I think any player enthusiasm related factors in pricing calculations will be directly the result of role dependent benefits and which ships are most effective in various roles. No matter how you slice it, they are not all going to be equal.

Minmatar will likely come in as the top Faction in most cases involving Attack oriented ships, with Gallente, Caldari, and Amarr following, and other roles will see other ships come to the front as best in class. I haven't honestly compared stats on any of them really, and don't have the ISK to make any serious investment regardless.

It will be interesting, whatever the outcome in that regard. Frankly though, I'll just be glad to see the new ships and fits in use, aside from some reservations on how Battle Cruisers and Battleships may or may not be treated in this process.

I am more worried about Battleships than Battle Cruisers though, I think. Both really, but I'll reserve my opinions, (aside from those I've already cast in a panic stricken flurry elsewhere), for when the Devs post their proposed changes I guess. Lol
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