These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

Forum Index

EVE Forums » EVE Gameplay Center » Missions & Complexes » Concern about Serpentis post-patch

Topic is locked indefinitely.

Concern about Serpentis post-patch
Author

Previous Topic Next Topic

Syn Fatelyng

Redanni

Likes received: 113

#1 - 2012-11-18 00:28:47 UTC | Edited by: Syn Fatelyng

Serpentis dampeners are notorious for severely crippling combat capability. Missions such as The Blockade can drop a battleship's lock range to under 5k, or 10k with a scripted sensor booster. Even worse, is that unlike ECM, dampeners are a constant. There's no "lock and fire" between cycles.

My usual approach is to either rely on drones for completion of those missions (Rattlesnake) or the velocity and locking speed of smaller ships (Tengu).

With the upcoming AI changes, the Rattlesnake's drones will need to be recalled when aggro switches to them. This is an issue when your ship is sensor dampened, because you can not lock onto the EW ships and order your drones to reengage. In a similar note, the Tengu is seeing a much-needed adjustment to missile damage and range, thus making it a ship I'm avoiding due to how easily other ships will now outpace it.

How will you be handling Serpentis Dampening post-patch, and have you found Sensor Boosters to really make that much of a difference?

Barrogh Habalu

Imperial Shipment

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 1,144

#2 - 2012-11-19 11:11:36 UTC

I figure I'm about to post useless comment, but I'll do that nevertheless.

I'd do that just like I did in Sansha blocade back then when I was flying pulse Abaddon (1 km optimal under TD ftw) - use AB, ram that stupid EWAR cruiser, use manual piloting to nulify angular (not needed against damps), shoot.

Though there's a problem.

First, Sansha elite cruisers are slow enough so you can catch up with them, but Serpentis sometimes bring EWAR frigs and you can't really catch them. Second, locking time once in range will be horrible.

Another option is to warp @ 100 and shoot them from afar, but if they manage to land damp in their faloff, you're in trouble (random TD hits are still manageable, but damps won't be).

Also you can try to use F.O.F.s and maybe fast ships (T3s?) to pull off that "ramming" trick.

Either way it sounds like a lot of tedium for the sake of it. Sometimes moving to another space would be a better solution (if bad spirit to some).

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become

hmskrecik

TransMine Group

Gluten Free Cartel

Likes received: 260

#3 - 2012-11-19 11:38:05 UTC

I partly blame lock range arithmetic. I did test with Kronos (108km with my skills) and two range-scripted sebos and I was still reduced to 12-something km. Correct me if I'm wrong but I suspect that ship's locking range is first capped at 250km and then later dampening effect is applied. If I'm right, then there's no way you can countermeasure.

Other thing is, yesterday I've run this mission and in the first spawn (initial being zeroth) I've counted 8 EWAR cruisers and until I managed to dispatch most of them I had constantly 4 to 5 dampeners on me. If it's not an overkill then I don't know what is.

Doomheim 2,211
Daniel Plain Doomheim Likes received: 2,211	#4 - 2012-11-19 12:40:43 UTC 1 load FoF, tape down F1 and watch porn on iPad until mission complete. I should buy an Ishtar.

Syn Fatelyng

Redanni

Likes received: 113

#5 - 2012-11-19 15:43:02 UTC | Edited by: Syn Fatelyng

Daniel Plain wrote:

load FoF, tape down F1 and watch porn on iPad until mission complete.

This is not an acceptable solution.

F.O.F.'s attack the nearest target. This means if the dampeners are orbiting at 40k, the wait time for F.OF.s to eventually clear everything under 40k is so long as to be ridiculous.

A full volley of cruiser F.O.Fs against dampening frigates is an exercise in futility, especially interceptors. Using them against HAC elite cruisers also does not always promise a kill because of defenders + naturally high resists against a already low volley weapon.

You are attempting to replace one AFK solution (drones) with another (F.O.Fs), whereas we're looking for realistic, practical solutions. Your suggestion would complete the mission slower than simply moving to a new agent.

Moving to a new agent should not be a solution.

Oopsy Bear

Doomheim

Likes received: 69

#6 - 2012-11-19 16:02:50 UTC

Syn Fatelyng wrote:

Moving to a new agent should not be a solution.

In a perfect world I would agree with you. However, my mission runner alt switched to a different faction long ago just because Serpentis damps made them slower than everything else (Guristas included). You know the situation isn't going to get better with the AI changes and your ship choice. Not leaving at this point is just you being hard headed.

Syn Fatelyng

Redanni

Likes received: 113

#7 - 2012-11-19 16:04:45 UTC

Oopsy Bear wrote:

and your ship choice. Not leaving at this point is just you being hard headed.

I am completely open to alternate ships and tactics, but I don't feel "Mach ftw" should be the answer for every single pirate faction (save blood/sansha).

If you have suggestions completely unrelated to the Tengu, Rattlesnake, or Mach, then I promise you'll have my full attention.

Alticus C Bear

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 202

#8 - 2012-11-19 16:35:27 UTC

Something like this completes serpentis missions pretty quickly has a great lock range and already relies on being fairly close. I have used variations on this fit for a long time serpentis blockade is around half an hour to kill everything. When not damped Null range is 8.9km+25km fall off void gives 1000dps.

[Proteus, Proteus serpentis LVL 4 missions]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Centum A-Type Energized Thermic Membrane
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer

Large Capacitor Battery II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Corelum C-Type 10MN MicroWarpdrive

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier

Vespa II x5
Hornet II x5

Zhilia Mann

Tide Way Out Productions

Likes received: 3,040

#9 - 2012-11-19 18:23:09 UTC

Syn Fatelyng wrote:

If you have suggestions completely unrelated to the Tengu, Rattlesnake, or Mach, then I promise you'll have my full attention.

The posted Proteus looks pretty good. I've done the same thing in an Astarte. You can outrange damps (yes, really) so a Naga works. I'd assume a Rokh would do alright as well but it would have more trouble keeping range.

DaRiKavus

Mosh Pit

THE BESTICLES

Likes received: 37

#10 - 2012-11-19 18:26:09 UTC

Have you considered using a Med shield RR ?

Drones get agro then just rep them (if using sentries ofc)

[Rattlesnake, Rats]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Large Shield Extender II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II

Medium S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Drone Link Augmentor II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile

Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I

Ogre II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Warden II x5
Garde II x5

stoicfaux

Likes received: 6,283

#11 - 2012-11-20 00:49:08 UTC

Oopsy Bear wrote:

[quote=Syn Fatelyng]You know the situation isn't going to get better with the AI changes and your ship choice.

Maybe, maybe not. In theory, the ewar frigates will focus on things their own size, such as your drones. The ewar cruisers will still be problematic.

Since the new AI is supposed to be biased against ewar, it may be possible to carry a few ewar drones and get the ewar NPCs to switch to attacking the ewar drones.

Another plan (though it is still suboptimal) is to launch some cheap t1 drones, get them aggro'd and then warp out so that the drones lose their connection, leaving the NPCS to beat on the drones. You warp back in and kill the ewar ships while they're busy killing the t1 drones.

But the Real Solution is to get your *faction* standings high enough that you can safely decline missions multiple times in a four hour block.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Risien Drogonne

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 117

#12 - 2012-11-20 00:57:50 UTC

DaRiKavus wrote:

How long can you actually run that repper? The rattlesnake doesn't exactly have the best cap regen. I run a similar setup (except with a second drone link instead of the repper and an AB instead of the third hardener) and the hardeners alone pretty much tap out my capacitor regen.


Syn Fatelyng Redanni Likes received: 113	#13 - 2012-11-20 02:54:38 UTC DaRiKavus wrote: Have you considered using a Med shield RR ? I have. Pointless with 5-8 dampeners on you. The lock time ends up in the minutes. I'll consider the Proteus. Thanks for the fitting and insight.

School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 5,031
Jack Miton School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State Likes received: 5,031	#14 - 2012-11-20 03:06:25 UTC I never had any issues running serp missions in a tengu back when i did missions. lock range never dropped below ~30-40km which is plenty. There is no Bob. Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout


Syn Fatelyng Redanni Likes received: 113	#15 - 2012-11-20 03:07:31 UTC Jack Miton wrote: I never had any issues running serp missions in a tengu back when i did missions. lock range never dropped below ~30-40km which is plenty. The completion time with the upcoming Tengu is now far longer than even a t1 Megathron, as stated before I am not interested in using the Tengu post-5.1

Luscius Uta

Likes received: 243

#16 - 2012-11-20 11:04:30 UTC

I hated Serpentis version of The Blockade until I could fly a Proteus - now it's a piece of cake with subsytem which increases locking range, one sensor booster and one signal amplifier. And I recommend AB+Rails instead of MWD+Blasters (rails have quite decent damage output after Crucible, especially against Serpentis which are weakest to Kin&Therm, and with AB running, battleships will almost never hit you). Also, a Proteus kills elite cruisers much faster than any battleship.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

hmskrecik

TransMine Group

Gluten Free Cartel

Likes received: 260

#17 - 2012-11-20 14:31:00 UTC

stoicfaux wrote:

But the Real Solution is to get your *faction* standings high enough that you can safely decline missions multiple times in a four hour block.

This is not a solution. Blockade is in itself quite a good mission. I don't remember exact numbers but I reckon it's almost 20 mil almost doable in 20 minutes (should be within one tick if not those bloody damps).

Jack Miton wrote:

I never had any issues running serp missions in a tengu back when i did missions.
lock range never dropped below ~30-40km which is plenty.

I remember you mentioning that you stopped doing mission since quite a long time. It may be that you did it before CCP 'fixed' NPC EWAR. I hardly believe you can keep that locking range nowadays.


Daniel Plain Doomheim Likes received: 2,211	#18 - 2012-11-20 15:02:12 UTC last time i did serpentis blockade, my tengu was consistently taken to ~10k targeting range in wave 2 or 3. my solution was to load FoF and then burn towards the damping ships, which worked out ok. but ofc. without the damps i could've blitzed the mission much much faster. I should buy an Ishtar.

Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 331
Fractal Muse Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic Likes received: 331	#19 - 2012-11-20 15:02:41 UTC How about a loki? I imagine there will be other options available after the patch, err... expansion, and people get a feel for the changes. A loki can't get to the same DPS as the posted proteus or a tengu but it is still a viable option.