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Navy Faction ships after rebalancing
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Col Arran
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-11-19 04:20:55 UTC
So this is something I have yet to see anything about. With the new rebalancing and the "bringing up" of the lower tiered ships what is going to be done about the Navy Faction Variants?

The best example I can think of right now is the Stabber and the Stabber Fleet issue.

Currently the SFI excels over the normal stabber because it can fit decent armor tank with some damage mods and 4 slots for EWAR. Well once the rebalance comes out its really going to close up the gap between the 2 variations since the mid slots are going to be the same and the normal stabber is getting another low slot.

This is really going to make me question the cost difference between the two ships and whether or not its justified.

Point in short; Does CCP have any plans to also rebalance Navy Variants of ships?
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#2 - 2012-11-19 05:16:27 UTC
Answer in short: yes.

After they finish the T1 stuff.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-11-19 05:22:29 UTC
I'm not as short as the other guy but.

In short:
When they buff T1 versions they make Navy versions obsolete for a little while.
If they buffed Navy too then suddenly pirate and T2 versions would become obsolete as well until they got a buff.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#4 - 2012-11-19 05:23:35 UTC
You might as well mothball your faction cruisers for quiet some time.
CCP plans on overhauling BC's, and BS's, before getting around to faction ships.

I bought a number of fleet stabbers in anticipation of them increasing in value once the FW-created glut passed.
That was a mistake.

The prices of fleet ships will continue to plummet as in some cases the vanilla T1 variant will be superior.
Alara IonStorm
#5 - 2012-11-19 05:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Col Arran wrote:

Currently the SFI excels over the normal stabber because it can fit decent armor tank with some damage mods and 4 slots for EWAR. Well once the rebalance comes out its really going to close up the gap between the 2 variations since the mid slots are going to be the same and the normal stabber is getting another low slot.

You will be glad to know the new Stabber sucks urine dipped balls in comparison to the SFI in any fit including kiting.

It isn't even close.
Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#6 - 2012-11-19 07:35:56 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Col Arran wrote:

Currently the SFI excels over the normal stabber because it can fit decent armor tank with some damage mods and 4 slots for EWAR. Well once the rebalance comes out its really going to close up the gap between the 2 variations since the mid slots are going to be the same and the normal stabber is getting another low slot.

You will be glad to know the new Stabber sucks urine dipped balls in comparison to the SFI in any fit including kiting.

It isn't even close.

this. the 6 lows a Stabber Fleet has compared to even the extra low of the new Stabber wins the day along with 5 guns. You'll have fun kiting in the new Stabber but that's all it seems useful for currently. With the SFI you can nano/shield tank it and kite effectively or armor that thing out, get an EHP of a lil less than a nanocane and BC speeds, still fit 180s across the highs, 2 webs/tracking disruptors/etc, a propmod, and a point. The SFI is still all out the better of the two

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#7 - 2012-11-19 08:36:19 UTC
Of all the t1 buffs and the detrimental effects it has on faction ships the SFI suffers the least.

SFI can still sig tank like a boss, run a great tank AND still remain mobile. The SFI, at it's current price is a no brainer, certainly in faction warfare style engagements where the warp ins and fight points are so well defined.

The new stabber will be able to kite, that's it.
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#8 - 2012-11-19 09:33:09 UTC
Osprey Navy Issue -> New Caracal outperforms it
Caracal Navy Issue -> New Caracal is faster with 1 less launcher and fittings...so I'd say "barely" equal.

Exeq Navy Issue -> New Thorax outperforms it completely
Vexor Navy -> I'll go ahead and say it...New Vexor outperforms it.

Scythe Fleet Issue -> Both Stabber and Rupture outperform it
Stabber Fleet Issue -> Still boss. New Rupture is slow in comparison and new stabber doesn't even come close in power

No idea for Amarr ships.

Navy versions of Osprey, Exeq and Scythe were already not worth their money.....now they will be completely worthless. I assume it is the same case for auguror navy.

So...not much will be changed for navy ships...our SFI's will blot out the sun. Caracal Navies will see reduction in numbers but still be used...others will be gathering dust.

I've another question though. What is the problem with Omen Navy. It looks great on paper. What does it lack? Why don't I see them more often.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2012-11-19 09:49:38 UTC
SFI is still completely OP compared to the other faction cruisers. No worries.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#10 - 2012-11-19 09:51:20 UTC
Gabrielle Lamb wrote:
I'm not as short as the other guy but.

In short:
When they buff T1 versions they make Navy versions obsolete for a little while.
If they buffed Navy too then suddenly pirate and T2 versions would become obsolete as well until they got a buff.


Rubbish. The Navy versions will be as effective as they are now. If you want to use the T1 then crack on, but it's disingenuous to suggest that Navy is suddenly crap.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#11 - 2012-11-19 11:17:30 UTC
Wait for the Navy ship crash and buy them up in anticipation of their eventual buff.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
chris elliot
Treasury Department
Plug N Play
#12 - 2012-11-19 13:25:31 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
Wait for the Navy ship crash and buy them up in anticipation of their eventual buff.



This guy knows whats up right here.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#13 - 2012-11-19 13:37:35 UTC
Deerin wrote:
Osprey Navy Issue -> New Caracal outperforms it
Caracal Navy Issue -> New Caracal is faster with 1 less launcher and fittings...so I'd say "barely" equal.

Exeq Navy Issue -> New Thorax outperforms it completely
Vexor Navy -> I'll go ahead and say it...New Vexor outperforms it.

Scythe Fleet Issue -> Both Stabber and Rupture outperform it
Stabber Fleet Issue -> Still boss. New Rupture is slow in comparison and new stabber doesn't even come close in power

No idea for Amarr ships.

Navy versions of Osprey, Exeq and Scythe were already not worth their money.....now they will be completely worthless. I assume it is the same case for auguror navy.

So...not much will be changed for navy ships...our SFI's will blot out the sun. Caracal Navies will see reduction in numbers but still be used...others will be gathering dust.

I've another question though. What is the problem with Omen Navy. It looks great on paper. What does it lack? Why don't I see them more often.


Actually, the navy auguror can have a phenomenal tank. It makes for a very nice bait ship. Most people assume it is lacking, engage, and realize it's a trap when they can't break the tank and the rest of your fleet arrives.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#14 - 2012-11-19 15:43:39 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:


Rubbish. The Navy versions will be as effective as they are now. If you want to use the T1 then crack on, but it's disingenuous to suggest that Navy is suddenly crap.


Game is about relative performance bub, that's what "balance" is all about. If an inexpensive t1 cruiser becomes superior to a far more expensive and hard to obtain navy cruiser after the patch then something is quite undeniably wrong.

The reality is that the SFI probably suffers the least from the relative change in performance between t1 and faction however as pointed out several times in this thread... Other cruisers are not fairing nearly as well.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#15 - 2012-11-19 16:18:03 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:


Rubbish. The Navy versions will be as effective as they are now. If you want to use the T1 then crack on, but it's disingenuous to suggest that Navy is suddenly crap.


Game is about relative performance bub, that's what "balance" is all about. If an inexpensive t1 cruiser becomes superior to a far more expensive and hard to obtain navy cruiser after the patch then something is quite undeniably wrong.

The reality is that the SFI probably suffers the least from the relative change in performance between t1 and faction however as pointed out several times in this thread... Other cruisers are not fairing nearly as well.


Hardly. People regularly pay 4/5 times more for an item with 5% more of something in it, or 5% less fitting etc. As long as a navy cruiser is 1% better in some way, it will still be flown.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#16 - 2012-11-19 16:39:03 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:



Hardly. People regularly pay 4/5 times more for an item with 5% more of something in it, or 5% less fitting etc. As long as a navy cruiser is 1% better in some way, it will still be flown.


If you honestly think that anything other than a tiny proportion of the eve population will pay 4x to 5x more for a ship with a minimal 1% increase in effectiveness you're smoking some seriously good ****.

The reality is that the issue being poked at by the op has already been admitted by ccp and will be addressed most probably late next year.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#17 - 2012-11-19 18:20:42 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:



Hardly. People regularly pay 4/5 times more for an item with 5% more of something in it, or 5% less fitting etc. As long as a navy cruiser is 1% better in some way, it will still be flown.


If you honestly think that anything other than a tiny proportion of the eve population will pay 4x to 5x more for a ship with a minimal 1% increase in effectiveness you're smoking some seriously good ****.

The reality is that the issue being poked at by the op has already been admitted by ccp and will be addressed most probably late next year.

People pay about 3 or 4 times more for an implant that is only 1% better, and that just goes in a flimsy ship that gets popped by the first disco that you fly a shuttle through. I don't see why a ship only being 1% better should be seen too differently. Maybe 5% minimum, but still, it costs a lot for a small gain, and people pay the price anyways.
Perihelion Olenard
#18 - 2012-11-20 01:12:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Perihelion Olenard
I think it will be quite a long time before you see changes to the navy issue ships. In a year-and-a-half CCP will release the new command ships, and after that you could see the navy issue ships improved slightly. They would probably tell you it's not a high priority. There is a lot of other stuff coming first.
Oblivion Maximus
War 247
#19 - 2012-11-20 01:46:26 UTC
chris elliot wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Wait for the Navy ship crash and buy them up in anticipation of their eventual buff.



This guy knows whats up right here.



SSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Top Secrect - 007 style
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#20 - 2012-11-20 02:18:25 UTC
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
I think it will be quite a long time before you see changes to the navy issue ships. In a year-and-a-half CCP will release the new command ships, and after that you could see the navy issue ships improved slightly. They would probably tell you it's not a high priority. There is a lot of other stuff coming first.


Commands should be rebalanced by next summer... Not a year and a half Roll BCs will probably be revamped before that.
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