These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Freighter issues

Author
Alara IonStorm
#61 - 2012-11-09 18:37:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Zyella Stormborn wrote:

I think she means 'cheaper' dps as in, less ships to get the job done. The T3 BC's set up for full gank, and the Brutix I believe is popular lately. Between the new ships and the turret upgrades for projectile and hybrids, you can get more gank out of less ships now than you could a couple of years back. Less ships = less pilots = easier to set up the gank.

Nope.

She mentioned Tier 3's exclusively and when Tier 3's were introduced insurance disappeared nullifying the cost increases entirely over Tier 2 Battlecruiser while not increasing the DPS of the Talos above a couple of % points that is off set by a smaller DB then the Megathron. Also in that expansion a couple of smaller ships were buffed but they do less DPS then Tier 3's anyway meaning it still takes the same maximum number of Ships to do the Gank as before the update. Now if you are talking about buffs years ago then that does not really matter because this has only been an issue in the last few months and again maximum DPS per ship, per cost wasn't boosted in Crucible.

The Dominix however at a significantly higher cost then before Crucible has increased it by a few of % points in Inferno but not much higher then what we had.

The truth is tank buff after tank buff and Concord Buff after Concord buff and that tiny % that get ganked who do to not take even the most basic precautions scream louder and louder while most of the game that don't load up their life savings and go AFK do fine. In all the buffs and nerfs it is harder now then it used to be years back when Concord was slower and no cheaper.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#62 - 2012-11-09 19:24:13 UTC
Hah. Upon re-reading, you are correct. My bad. ;)

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly

Zaraz Zaraz
Zontik Paraphernalia Inc
#63 - 2012-11-10 00:55:08 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:

I still use my freighter, and my orca, and I still am careful about $ amounts when I travel. But I do feel that things were dangerous before, and now leaning too hard the other way (they were too far in favor of the transporter before with the unscannable / undroppable slots for Orca, but now its the polar opposite. If the pilot has 1 or 2 very expensive large items, there is no way to try and plan for or fit for moving it in a way to counter ganks, other than just hoping there is an hour that they are not sitting on a gate).


Orca corp hangar will be scannable and drop its contents in a patch very soon.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#64 - 2012-11-10 02:50:59 UTC
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:

I still use my freighter, and my orca, and I still am careful about $ amounts when I travel. But I do feel that things were dangerous before, and now leaning too hard the other way (they were too far in favor of the transporter before with the unscannable / undroppable slots for Orca, but now its the polar opposite. If the pilot has 1 or 2 very expensive large items, there is no way to try and plan for or fit for moving it in a way to counter ganks, other than just hoping there is an hour that they are not sitting on a gate).


Orca corp hangar will be scannable and drop its contents in a patch very soon.



Yep. Hence my comment (the underlined part). Big smile

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#65 - 2012-11-10 19:57:51 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
dethleffs wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
One other way to discourage a freighter gank (or kind of hauling gank) is to throw a whole crapton of different "useless" things into the cargohold... minimizing the chances of a good drop for the gankers.


50% drop of **** will still have its worth


Not if it is 100% bookmarks... I figure 10k of bookmarks too would cause some lag upon the person doing the scanning Lol

EDIT I guess I misread your post as the crap would have some value &random bookmarks ocourse have novalue but each one does show upindividually as 1item on the scanner I am told. In the thread about Convo bombs not being an exploight a DEV there saidthat such tactics of creating lag are not an exploight.... it'll be interesting to see if petitions will start popping up bygankers scanning alts & if CCP's decides to label such tactics as an exploight Twisted
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Reticle
Sight Picture
#66 - 2012-11-10 21:10:17 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
dethleffs wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
One other way to discourage a freighter gank (or kind of hauling gank) is to throw a whole crapton of different "useless" things into the cargohold... minimizing the chances of a good drop for the gankers.


50% drop of **** will still have its worth


Not if it is 100% bookmarks... I figure 10k of bookmarks too would cause some lag upon the person doing the scanning Lol

EDIT I guess I misread your post as the crap would have some value &random bookmarks ocourse have novalue but each one does show upindividually as 1item on the scanner I am told. In the thread about Convo bombs not being an exploight a DEV there saidthat such tactics of creating lag are not an exploight.... it'll be interesting to see if petitions will start popping up bygankers scanning alts & if CCP's decides to label such tactics as an exploight Twisted

I've used the bookmark tactic. It has an unfortunate side effect: it lags you too.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-11-10 21:20:42 UTC
Reticle wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
dethleffs wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
One other way to discourage a freighter gank (or kind of hauling gank) is to throw a whole crapton of different "useless" things into the cargohold... minimizing the chances of a good drop for the gankers.


50% drop of **** will still have its worth


Not if it is 100% bookmarks... I figure 10k of bookmarks too would cause some lag upon the person doing the scanning Lol

EDIT I guess I misread your post as the crap would have some value &random bookmarks ocourse have novalue but each one does show upindividually as 1item on the scanner I am told. In the thread about Convo bombs not being an exploight a DEV there saidthat such tactics of creating lag are not an exploight.... it'll be interesting to see if petitions will start popping up bygankers scanning alts & if CCP's decides to label such tactics as an exploight Twisted

I've used the bookmark tactic. It has an unfortunate side effect: it lags you too.


There is another side effect. The one where you are wasting your time doing it. Drops are not calcualted one time for whole cargo but for each items one after another. Each valuable items still has the same chance of dropping no matter how many of them there is.
Reticle
Sight Picture
#68 - 2012-11-10 22:31:52 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Reticle wrote:
I've used the bookmark tactic. It has an unfortunate side effect: it lags you too.


There is another side effect. The one where you are wasting your time doing it. Drops are not calcualted one time for whole cargo but for each items one after another. Each valuable items still has the same chance of dropping no matter how many of them there is.


From previous page:
Reticle wrote:
Drop rates are per can/assembled ship and per stack, e.g. two stacks of 1 mil trit each have a 50% drop chance, 100 researched BPOs (which means they don't stack) each get 50% drop chance, and so on. The purpose of all the junk in the hold is to throw off the scanner. He cannot tell the difference between two plastic wrapped courier packages full of the junk and 1 double wrapped package plus a pile of junk. It camoflauges the double wrap.


What I was replying to and what was included in the quote you replied to.
Reticle wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Not if it is 100% bookmarks... I figure 10k of bookmarks too would cause some lag upon the person doing the scanning

I've used the bookmark tactic. It has an unfortunate side effect: it lags you too.


Reading isn't hard. Try it sometime.
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#69 - 2012-11-11 07:00:53 UTC
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
Hi there everyone. I'd just like to throw out there that Push Industries will move an unlimited amount of collateral that scales at a fixed rate (Cost.) We have safely shuttled half a hundred billion across large distances - in one load. We have some proprietary methods but at the end of the day it's about the customer passing the risk to us. We're professionals, and we deliver higher valued packages at competitive prices and are faster than anyone else.

OP, use us. Freighters are not a normal ship, and they take a lot of practice and care to use efficiently.


Webbing ships and scouts are proprietary methods?

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/

Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#70 - 2012-11-11 12:18:02 UTC
What are popular goon gank systems? I might do some trolling.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Zaraz Zaraz
Zontik Paraphernalia Inc
#71 - 2012-11-14 05:26:33 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
What are popular goon gank systems? I might do some trolling.


Last time I looked, many gates on the 'autopilot route' from Jita to Torrinos were loaded with goon gank squads.
Marcus McTavish
Volcel Police
#72 - 2012-11-18 07:13:44 UTC
-Double Wrap
-Webbing Alt
-Don't carry so much at once
-Scout ahead
-Don't go through prime gank systems

A lot of gankers don't bother with Freighters that are Double wrapped. Its a hit or miss kind of deal. Most don't like to roll the dice.

Its not very difficult not to die to gankers. Just like it's not very difficult not to get ganked while mining. You just have to pay attention and adapt.

CCP should not intervene. Freighters have a lot of HP. If you are that concerned. Bring an alt in a Link Legion and boost Shield and Armor Resists, and use Slaves or something. I don't know, this has been argued to death though.
Zaraz Zaraz
Zontik Paraphernalia Inc
#73 - 2012-11-19 11:02:20 UTC
Marcus McTavish wrote:
-Double Wrap
-Webbing Alt
-Don't carry so much at once
-Scout ahead
-Don't go through prime gank systems

A lot of gankers don't bother with Freighters that are Double wrapped. Its a hit or miss kind of deal. Most don't like to roll the dice.


Actually thats the problem right there;

T3 BC's are so dirt cheap disposable that its practical to suicide gank anything with a double-wrapped cargo, just in case.

Soon the Orca corp hangar will be scannable and will drop its contents; if it was NOT scannable but did DID drop its contents, there would be fleets of Tornados sitting at gates ganking every Orca that came through, JUST IN CASE!


Why are T3 BC's so cheap? When T3 cruisers came out man were they expensive. IMO T3 BC's should have followed that pattern; they should have been 'epic'. You don't suicide gank in a Loki, you shouldn't suicide gank in a Tornado.

Was there ever a dev post or any explanation why T3 BC's were so cheap, didn't lose you SP when you lost one etc?

Alara IonStorm
#74 - 2012-11-19 11:25:31 UTC
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:

Why are T3 BC's so cheap? When T3 cruisers came out man were they expensive. IMO T3 BC's should have followed that pattern; they should have been 'epic'. You don't suicide gank in a Loki, you shouldn't suicide gank in a Tornado.

Was there ever a dev post or any explanation why T3 BC's were so cheap, didn't lose you SP when you lost one etc?

Tier 3 Battlecruiser.
Tech 3 Cruiser.

The Moa is a Tier 3 Cruiser, the Merlin is a Tier 3 Frigate and the Rokh is a Tier 3 Battleship.

Tech 3 Cruisers have like 7 to 10 Bonuses, better resists / stats then T1 and T2 as well as more slots. A Tornado is the High Slots of a Maelstrom bolted to a Rupture at a third the cost of a Maelstrom and 7 times the cost of a Rupture.

Soon the Tier 3 Battlecruiser won't be Tier 3 it will just be another Battlecruiser with Tieracide.

The only equivalence to Tech 3 and Tier 3 is they both have a 3 in the name.

As for cost they are no more expensive then a Tempest was with full insurance before insurance was removed from ganking.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-11-19 11:29:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Elena Thiesant
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:
Why are T3 BC's so cheap? When T3 cruisers came out man were they expensive. IMO T3 BC's should have followed that pattern; they should have been 'epic'. You don't suicide gank in a Loki, you shouldn't suicide gank in a Tornado.


Loki = Tech 3 cruiser.
Tornado = Tech 1 battlecruiser (T3 in this case means Tier 3)

Quote:
Was there ever a dev post or any explanation why T3 BC's were so cheap, didn't lose you SP when you lost one etc?


Because they're Tech 1 ships. You should no more lose SP dying in one than you do in a Myrmidon, Hurricane, Harbringer or Drake (Tech 1, Tier 2 battlecruisers)
Zaraz Zaraz
Zontik Paraphernalia Inc
#76 - 2012-11-19 14:21:18 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:

Why are T3 BC's so cheap? When T3 cruisers came out man were they expensive. IMO T3 BC's should have followed that pattern; they should have been 'epic'. You don't suicide gank in a Loki, you shouldn't suicide gank in a Tornado.

Was there ever a dev post or any explanation why T3 BC's were so cheap, didn't lose you SP when you lost one etc?

Tier 3 Battlecruiser.
Tech 3 Cruiser.

The Moa is a Tier 3 Cruiser, the Merlin is a Tier 3 Frigate and the Rokh is a Tier 3 Battleship.

Tech 3 Cruisers have like 7 to 10 Bonuses, better resists / stats then T1 and T2 as well as more slots. A Tornado is the High Slots of a Maelstrom bolted to a Rupture at a third the cost of a Maelstrom and 7 times the cost of a Rupture.

Soon the Tier 3 Battlecruiser won't be Tier 3 it will just be another Battlecruiser with Tieracide.

The only equivalence to Tech 3 and Tier 3 is they both have a 3 in the name.

As for cost they are no more expensive then a Tempest was with full insurance before insurance was removed from ganking.



Thanks for clarifying that, I've been totally 'WTF??' about them since they came out...
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#77 - 2012-11-20 18:15:42 UTC
Why is the removal of insurance payout an excuse for cheap ships?

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Alara IonStorm
#78 - 2012-11-20 18:49:46 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Why is the removal of insurance payout an excuse for cheap ships?

An excuse?

You realize that these things are used for more then just ganking right? They were not added to the game to gank people in fact it is a very small % of their use. They have Cruiser HP and Speed with Battleship Highslots and Battlecruiser size and price, Frankenstein Ships with the benefit of High DPS and High Speed and the drawbacks of low HP and less accuracy.

The removal of insurance was added along side them. Whether this was due to pressure to have insurance for criminal assaults revoked in general or to equalize prices is unknown but they did it and now it happens to costs no more to Suicide Gank with these as it did Battleships.

There was no excuses made.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#79 - 2012-11-21 11:21:37 UTC
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
We're professionals, and we deliver higher valued packages at competitive prices and are faster than anyone else.


I was rather disappointed when I used PushX. Contract went over 13 hours then I cancelled it then red frogged. It also wasn't an out of the way run or anything, but between hubs.
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#80 - 2012-11-21 22:39:29 UTC
Nazowa wrote:
Freighters can use a small HP boost. Nothing spectacular but at least something needs to be done.


HP boosts are not a deterrent. MinLuv will just field the needed number of extra Talos to burn through it. and don't talk about profitability of that... MinLuv have ganked freighters which held near-worthless cargo plenty of times. Besides, a freighter already has an immense amount of HP for a highsec-capable capital ship considering its inability to fit modules.

Get a in-corp Hyena alt to web you gate to gate, or do your runs in a JF and stay completely out of highsec between your origin and destination.