Jita Park Speakers Corner

well if its not profitability and more of a case of ease of movement, then nerfing movement is going to hinder movement of minerals IN nullsec not just from high to null.

what about the compression being a nullsec activity / only achievable in nullsec stations via a station service?

interesting.
However I'm sad thinking CCP would need 3 years to tackle all of these things :(
crucible, inferno and revelation made lots of good things come true, but I consider they don't deliver enough... mostly because what I really wait are what are written on this document ; sov remake, pos remake, and industry remake... and this incarna we're still waiting for also.

I think you might find it more illuminating to focus on the first half of the document, which describes the problem (balancing the needs of current and potential players) and a proposed change in development strategy that addresses the problem. The second half are just examples that illustrate how that strategy could be applied.

While I'm sure we all can argue ad nauseum as to why our personal pet issue is the most critical and must be addressed ASAP, the key problem to my mind is finding a development strategy that addresses both CCP's business goals while at the same time providing the resources to address any of the critical issues.

tl/dr: focus on the forest, not on the trees (or the shrubberies).

Hi there,

Read the doc (well scanned it and read the interesting bits) and I have to say: "meh".

Tbh I can understand all the focus on 0.0 sec and sovereignty and such but for me? No, I don't care, I don't want to go to null sec, I am quite happy here in High Sec. There is a lot of stuff already going on in null sec so why focus on that even more?

Ok, so I have heard that a lot of nothing is going on in null sec as well. Ok, let's expand high sec towards low sec and low sec towards null sec. If you claim a sector, get your own sec status (positive, or negative, what ever you want). From a role-playing perspective I have always found it hard to believe that a successful corporation didn't expand into low sec and brought their own justice with them. Once the system had been populated (this doesn't have to be a single NPC corp, but could consist out of a conglomerate) then the security status could be transformed to high sec. Better even, let the NPC be owned by the players themselves.

Oh yeah, one of my major problems with this: "Don't tell me what to do, don't tell me to go to low or null sec, I don't wanna."

I consider myself a newb in most Eve things, but I enjoy the relative safety of High Sec, it suits me. Let me keep it that way.

Regards and all that sort of stuff.

Grojar Flesp

Dumb, since the point of compression is to get minerals there in the first place.

Frankly I disagree that it should be needed at all, even in the ideal scenario, but I'm posting from a phone and can't articulate my reasoning as easily; it'll have to wait.

E: to make it clear to people it may not be clear to, "compression" is building things like large guns with a high amount of minerals relative to their volume, not rorqual compression. Just to make the topic clear.

And he's telling you that's a stupid approach to take, since compression is a symptom of the problem that supply can't be met in nullsec, not the other way around. Mineral importation of any form is only done because the supplies simply cannot be reliably sourced locally, and thus compression is used to optimize that process. Removing compression does nothing to solve the problem of low supply of minerals (esp. lowends) in nullsec while making things even harder for nullsec producers for no reason.

Suggesting removal of compression as a fix to anything would be akin to buying a bottle of cough syrup for someone with terminal lung cancer.

You've been arguing the finer points of minerals moving to and from nullsec and how to make it harder since your first post in this thread, first with your JF fuel changes, your "maybe it can only be done in null" thing, etc. Even doing this shows you seem to be under the same mistaken impression as the CSM - that somehow mineral compression is even part of the reason that the supply of lowends is insufficient for large scale production in nullsec. What I've argued (and seemingly what corestwo has so far, though I don't presume to speak for him) is that this is false, and that focusing on compression as something that needs action one way or the other does a disservice to any attempt to actually fix the real problem with industry in 0.0.

Aleks posted earlier in the thread something along the lines of "when, and only when nullsec industry is fixed, then compression should be removed". What we're saying is that once nullsec industry is "fixed", you won't even need to remove compression as it won't be done anymore.

edit: I'll even go a step further as to why this is A Bad Thing. The fact that mineral compression even made the sort of narrow-yet-important scope of this document (think Mittani's "sucking chest wounds") is a sign that the CSM has a poor grasp on what the problems with nullsec really are. The fact that it got its own paragraph (in a category that referenced station upgrades, no less) should worry the hell out of anyone who actually expects effective representation of the game's issues.

Your own wishlist on where you all think EVE should be heading is under NDA?

I'd better be careful posting about what I'd like to see out of EVE in the future. I could be sued.

I can see that no one in the CSM is actively involved in industry. Super yield mining? Create incentives for miners in null by increasing yield? Create incentives for miners in null by breaking mineral compression? Your super capital fleet addiction is showing.

Shiny things for new players: how about being able to set courier or "delivery of material" contracts with POCO hangars as the pickup or drop off? With the POS rework coming, it would be really nice to have POS hangars as pickup/drop off points too. Simple things like this will greatly enhance the prospects for people interested in space trucking as a career.

The article provided by the CSM is entirely too focused on sov holding in nullsec as the definition of what this game is about. Who will be the barbarians pillaging and razing your farms and plundering your fields? What incentives will there be for bitter vets who left the game due to the politics of nullsec to return? Any work on sovereignty has to include some means of ensuring that a small alliance with fewer than a thousand members can achieve something in nullsec. A force as small as fifty pilots in sub capitals should be a significant threat to any alliance.

Why aren't Incursions as good for nullsec income as they are for hisec income (you get 50% higher payouts in lowsec and null)? Why have wardecs reduced the risk of living in hisec? It was the barge buff which broke hisec ganking, not changes to CONCORD (the barge buff also impacted detrimentally on hisec mining income, BTW, but I see no complaint about that in the CSM paper). Gankers are still profitably ganking freighters in Uedama & Niarja. The nullsec bias and propaganda in this paper indicates to me that you folk should take a good hard look at the assumptions you make about the game and your perceptions of other players' motivations for playing.

The first two pages of this paper aren't particularly well thought out. What evidence do CCP or CSM have that new features attract new players? Haven't the numbers shown quite decidedly that new players are attracted by stories such as the GHSC assassination, the collapse of BOB, etc? Wouldn't Quality of Life and UI be the things that attract potentials? Where is the UI from so many teaser videos, CCP? You advertise using this holographic, animated UI, then saddle people with the 2D UI drawn on top of the 3D universe. I don't doubt that new/shinier/fixed stuff brings back lapsed players, much like new expansions bring back the "wonder what it is like now" crowd to most MMOs for however long it takes the novelty to wear off.

What I feel will attract more potentials is a more meaningful way to interact with people during the first few hours of play: a pilots lounge, a shared emoting space where you can be an actual person instead of a spaceship. Where is EVE's Ironforge or Dalaran? There need be nothing to do there other than see and be seen. Enhance the ability to be recruited right off the bat: allow for corporate uniforms (and corp/alliance logos in chat channel portraits) so new players can more easily appreciate that certain corps have more players active during their play time. The people who look at EVE and stay are comfortable with being a spaceship all the time. How many of the potentials who don't stay end up leaving because they want to have a person avatar? The future of Incarna is shooting in structures, but I really do wonder how much of an impact a space barbie play house will have on retaining new players.

The five pillars presented by the CSM are a very comfortable statement that CSM perceives CCP's current direction a seeing the right one. This direction is great for the moment, but CSM seems entirely blinkered in the mindset of nullsec sov holding alliances being the only place for players to go.

Not listed in the list of pillars is the invisible sixth pillar of communication. The massive face-saving that CCP did between Incarna and Inferno was as much due to CCP “lifting the skirts” as it was about the refocus on flying in space. There must be leaks from the skunkworks! CSM needs to keep reminding CCP that devblogs are appreciated (just as we players do too). Pushing the issue of e.g: defaulting dev posts to unflagged will enhance communication (and different flag colours for game devs vs community devs vs CSM vs ISD vs CCP Punkturis) will be iteration in the community & communication space.

Acknowledge that pillar so that you are reminded about communication yourselves, most silent of CSMs.

edit: n/m, not gonna troll