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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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Get rid of that control bar
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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#1 - 2012-11-18 06:22:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Seriously, the commentators are focusing all their attention on it, to the point that sometimes they arent even watching the match.

"You can see by the big control bar that goonswarm is dominating this match" ->Goons got wiped horribly. If you looked at the ewar indicators, you could see that ewar was being applied by verge, and reps were being applied by verge, so despite the big green bar for goons, their ewar was completely ineffective.

Its also just showing applied ewar, which is not really a measure of control. You could fill that bar up by tracking disrupting tengus, or applying caldari ecm to eccmed huginns.

The other bars are not as bad, but they are still basically just eft-warrioring.

Also, make different icons for applied jam vs successful jam, maybe even let us see the jam timer for successful jams cycles.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-11-18 06:27:37 UTC
No. The bars are awesome and need to become permanent.
NoT KwarK
LP Incorporated
#3 - 2012-11-18 06:30:39 UTC
I agree, the other bars seem much more useful. The control bar also actively detracts from the commentary as the commentators focus on it too much in my opinion.
Aducat Ragnarson
Blootered Bastards
#4 - 2012-11-18 09:39:56 UTC
I think the bars are a great addition, however I also believe that jamming should only be shown if a jam cycle actually gets a lock. As mentioned before, in the Verge of Collapse (Africas Finest) fight, it looked like they were all jammed all the time even though it was just that the jam modules were activated on the. This also seems to have confused the commentators a little. In addition activated jams should only be represented in the green part of the control button if they actually get a jam off.
knifee
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#5 - 2012-11-18 12:28:08 UTC
It would be nice if the Ewar icons would change colour or be highlighted to show successful cycles as well as attempted.
cBOLTSON
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-11-18 13:46:58 UTC
I like the new setup, its great but I have to agree with others. If you could make it so the control bar fills up with actual jams and disrupts etc (Not just applied) that would be awesome.

Still its helpful for new guys and anyone who knows the game can judge what is going on anyway :)

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......
Lucas Raholan
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
#7 - 2012-11-18 14:27:21 UTC
i do find myself watching these bars more oftern then the actual match...that or the chat window on the left as its Oh so intresting.

expect for that 4 blaster boat set up Exiled brought cause that was funny.

Shitposts so bad CONCORD gave me a 50 billion ISK bounty
Royal Jedi
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#8 - 2012-11-18 14:35:16 UTC
I actually quite like all the new info that's given i think it should stay.

Since there were actually quite a lot of ECM teams yesterday it seems only obvious that the control bar would be discussed quite a bit.

One thing that would be cool though, would be if there was a little area on the info outlining what ships had been banned for that match. I think that would be pretty informative when watching the matches back later on.
Archetype 66
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-11-18 14:44:31 UTC
Royal Jedi wrote:
I actually quite like all the new info that's given i think it should stay.
One thing that would be cool though, would be if there was a little area on the info outlining what ships had been banned for that match. I think that would be pretty informative when watching the matches back later on.


+1

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=173553&find=unread

Do it CCP please :)
Ryhss
#10 - 2012-11-18 23:31:41 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
No. The bars are awesome and need to become permanent.

and use them in ATXI.

I just turned into an egg, did I level up? I spent an hour trying to salvage a wreck, when in local a guy said "Stop it, this is my Tempest, I was AFK"
Tomiko Kawase
Perkone
#11 - 2012-11-19 02:40:26 UTC
The bars are AMAZING. I seriously love what CCP has done with the spectator UI. I had no idea what was going on in ATIX and since then each iteration has been better and better. Someday they'll make it so someone terrible like me can actually understand the matches.

Bombastic vintage soul with a driving groove, brass & male vocal
Friendly Gank
Unilateral Inaction
#12 - 2012-11-19 19:27:06 UTC
Seems to me like the total potential damage vs. applied damage for each team is a much better indicator of the amount of effective "control" anyway, and interpreting that data would actually give the commentators something useful to talk about.
Seldarine
Resolute Supremacy
#13 - 2012-11-19 19:48:14 UTC
I'd like a bar that displays some information in relation to the velocity of ships. Would be great for an easy to read display of kitting ability vs chasing ability of teams compared to each other.
Sakura Nihil
Faded Light
#14 - 2012-11-19 22:40:18 UTC
I like the bars, as it does give a person with no experience a basic idea of how the fleet is organized and fairing in a fight.

No more bars though please, I think we're just about to the point where we're paying more attention to the bars than the ships pewing each other in space.

Glory

Faded Light is recruiting
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#15 - 2012-11-19 22:48:12 UTC
Sakura Nihil wrote:
I like the bars, as it does give a person with no experience a basic idea of how the fleet is organized and fairing in a fight.


It doesnt really though, except comparing the potential vs applied dps really. Like a team might have a massive active tank bar, but their logi could be jammed, or they could have huge control bars but be doing things like damping a kronos that is 500 meters from your scimitar.
Tyrus Tenebros
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-11-20 03:08:13 UTC
I'm fairly certain the DPS bar is "potential DPS" but the DPS colored in bar is the "actual applied DPS after reps"...

either that or everybody is atrociously terrible at applying DPS.

In any case, I'm fairly certain the DPS bar isn't quite accurate unless it's near or at zero. A team can be applying full DPS to multiple targets, etc etc, and I've never seen it go more than maybe half.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#17 - 2012-11-20 03:57:51 UTC
Tyrus Tenebros wrote:
I'm fairly certain the DPS bar is "potential DPS" but the DPS colored in bar is the "actual applied DPS after reps"...

either that or everybody is atrociously terrible at applying DPS.

In any case, I'm fairly certain the DPS bar isn't quite accurate unless it's near or at zero. A team can be applying full DPS to multiple targets, etc etc, and I've never seen it go more than maybe half.


Its "eft dps" and "actual dps before resists"

DPS on most ships is applied very poorly. For instance, a sleipnir with 0 TEs shooting a nonmoving target at 20k with EMP does less than half damage.
Tyrus Tenebros
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-11-20 04:08:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrus Tenebros
Michael Harari wrote:
Tyrus Tenebros wrote:
I'm fairly certain the DPS bar is "potential DPS" but the DPS colored in bar is the "actual applied DPS after reps"...

either that or everybody is atrociously terrible at applying DPS.

In any case, I'm fairly certain the DPS bar isn't quite accurate unless it's near or at zero. A team can be applying full DPS to multiple targets, etc etc, and I've never seen it go more than maybe half.


Its "eft dps" and "actual dps before resists"

DPS on most ships is applied very poorly. For instance, a sleipnir with 0 TEs shooting a nonmoving target at 20k with EMP does less than half damage.

Yes I know, that's what I was commenting on.

It makes no sense to have a bar reflecting EFT DPS vs. DPS after resists.... unapplied dps due to tracking, falloff, etc., is obviously completely understandable, but since virtually every ship in the game has some resist against incoming damage, and some incredibly significant, it'd be more useful to see that a team is "trying as hard as it can" against the resists and still not breaking the other team.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#19 - 2012-11-20 04:13:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Im pretty sure the actual bar is before resists

Edit: I think the appropriate bars would be

"eft dps after resists" vs "actual applied dps after all mitigation"

The resists would be a weighted average calculated over the enemy team, weighted according to damage type.

For example, a team loading all phased plasma would have very low potential dps against a team of proteii, but if they reloaded to fusion, the potential bar would grow.
Tyrus Tenebros
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-11-20 04:26:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrus Tenebros
Michael Harari wrote:
Im pretty sure the actual bar is before resists

Edit: I think the appropriate bars would be

"eft dps after resists" vs "actual applied dps after all mitigation"

The resists would be a weighted average calculated over the enemy team, weighted according to damage type.

For example, a team loading all phased plasma would have very low potential dps against a team of proteii, but if they reloaded to fusion, the potential bar would grow.

which is more or less precisely what I was suggesting and pointing out in the first place.

edit: specifically that "theoretical dps" vs. "dps on resist profile" is a nonsensical bar because you'll NEVER see it near full, even if the team is doing a good job of actually shooting the opponent.
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