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freighters

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#101 - 2012-11-18 13:22:49 UTC
Well I for one am very much looking forwards to winter and its all new ways to inflict chaos in high sec.
Xinivrae
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2012-11-18 13:23:23 UTC
Lorna Mood wrote:
I've lost a freighter to this exploit, and yes, using the bumping mechanic to get the kill IS an exploit.


I'll just leave this here...
Riddick Liddell
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2012-11-18 13:23:43 UTC
Lorna Mood wrote:
My objection to hi sec freighter ganking is that it cannot be defended against.

Scout ahead? Scout for what exactly? The gankers don't sit in the system, they warp in after the freighter has been bumped to stop it aligning. That's just stupid game mechanics, like knocking a jumbo jet off course by flying a cessna close to it.

Don't carry any cargo worth more than a half a billion? Even if that supposedly helps it renders frieghters totally useless as a ship class. Is that by design? I don't think so.

I've lost a freighter to this exploit, and yes, using the bumping mechanic to get the kill IS an exploit. I wasn't AFK, yes I CAN afford to lose it, no I'm not stupid and no, I'm not whining about losing a ship, I really don't give a XXXX. I have however still cancelled my accounts as I am not comfortable with the game mechanic that allows a freighter to be killed so easily with zero risk.

Flame me all you like about 'rage quitting' but it's nothing like that. If you see what you think is a flaw which spoils a game for you then you stop playing it, no matter what game it is.

And no, you can't have my stuff before some highly unoriginal child asks.


I feel bad for you. It doesn't help though. I spent 45 minutes getting mauled over by the forum patrol. It was 45 minutes wasted.

Keep a look out, maybe things will change. If not, there are plenty of games out there to pass the time.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2012-11-18 13:25:51 UTC
Riddick Liddell wrote:
I feel bad for you. It doesn't help though. I spent 45 minutes getting mauled over by the forum patrol. It was 45 minutes wasted.

You mean the "antisocial" and "unemphatic" people who have embraced that EVE is a PVP game to a greater extent than you have?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2012-11-18 13:29:20 UTC
Xinivrae wrote:
Lorna Mood wrote:
I've lost a freighter to this exploit, and yes, using the bumping mechanic to get the kill IS an exploit.


I'll just leave this here...


Best dev post ever. Seriously.... I'm getting it screenshot, framed, and put on my wall.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#106 - 2012-11-18 13:30:21 UTC
when people say 'no risk' in regards to suicide ganking for profit I think what they are usually trying to say is that for the gankers they're able to calculate the number of ships and DPS to almost be assured of a successful gank

it's still a wrong thing to say, of course, i imagine it's pretty easy to foul up a gank because three people disconnected halfway through and one was burping the worm when the call went out

besides if they took the effort to organise and calculate the odds of success i think they're entitled to a reward

also it's possible that the gankers fail because the freighter/barge took some basic precautio- oh
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#107 - 2012-11-18 13:31:36 UTC
How long does it take for the gankers to show up after your freighter has been bumped?
Less than a minute? Because that's exactly how long it takes for your freighter to disappear, assuming you haven't been webbing it (and of course you haven't been).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dave stark
#108 - 2012-11-18 13:33:30 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
when people say 'no risk' in regards to suicide ganking for profit I think what they are usually trying to say is that for the gankers they're able to calculate the number of ships and DPS to almost be assured of a successful gank

it's still a wrong thing to say, of course, i imagine it's pretty easy to foul up a gank because three people disconnected halfway through and one was burping the worm when the call went out

besides if they took the effort to organise and calculate the odds of success i think they're entitled to a reward

also it's possible that the gankers fail because the freighter/barge took some basic precautio- oh



gankers calculate how much dps is needed to take down a freighter, and thus how much loot has to be in a freighter for it to be worth ganking.

why can't freighter pilots do the same calculation and then work out how much loot is the limit to carry before they become a space pinata?

are freighter pilots unable to do basic mathematics?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2012-11-18 13:36:16 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
gankers calculate how much dps is needed to take down a freighter, and thus how much loot has to be in a freighter for it to be worth ganking.

why can't freighter pilots do the same calculation and then work out how much loot is the limit to carry before they become a space pinata?

are freighter pilots unable to do basic mathematics?

Do the same line of reasoning for mining barges, and see how that worked out. You can probably assume that the same thing is going to happen for freighters.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Ghazu
#110 - 2012-11-18 13:37:28 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Let me be more specific.

How much - in terms of ISK would a mass suicide gank event require per average mack killed, considering losing the gank boats, selling the drops etc? IE what's the "deficit"?

I am thinking about sponsoring some Hulkageddon revival but the expense has to be within a budget.


10 to 20 million per mack when attacking them in a 0.7 system which is where most of them live.

Hulks need no subsity.


Is GS still sponsoring as well? I could toss 2-3B into a "revival", just to spice up Christmas.

oh 2-3 b only? you can easily Madoff like 2-3 t.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Dave stark
#111 - 2012-11-18 13:39:39 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
gankers calculate how much dps is needed to take down a freighter, and thus how much loot has to be in a freighter for it to be worth ganking.

why can't freighter pilots do the same calculation and then work out how much loot is the limit to carry before they become a space pinata?

are freighter pilots unable to do basic mathematics?

Do the same line of reasoning for mining barges, and see how that worked out. You can probably assume that the same thing is going to happen for freighters.


i'm not so sure.

mining barges needed rebalancing, regardless of hulkageddon and ganking. also the crucial difference is that an EMPTY exhumer was profitable to gank. is an empty freighter profitable to gank?

there are some subtle but important differences.
Lorna Mood
P.I.E.
#112 - 2012-11-18 13:42:13 UTC
Xinivrae wrote:
Lorna Mood wrote:
I've lost a freighter to this exploit, and yes, using the bumping mechanic to get the kill IS an exploit.


I'll just leave this here...



I am fully aware that is not against the rules so the use of the word "exploit" was probably misleading.

What I meant is that being able to bump a freighter with a ship the size of a spec of dust is quitely frankly ludicrous and it's this game mechanic that needs looking at.

I'm not in any way suggesting making hi sec 'safer' or stopping anyones fun who wants to shoot things.
UAxSunShine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#113 - 2012-11-18 13:43:12 UTC
When will people learn not to carry anything more than the value of the ship they are transporting in it? It's basic eve stuff I learnt it within a month of playing. People who don't follow this rule deserve to loose their stuff and have no right to complain. Don't be lazy and you keep your stuff It's a pretty simply philosophy that helps you keep your stuff.

Also people carrying plex are the lowest forms of life currently playing the game. If you don't know how to transport plex with out any risk by the time you're in a freighter you should probably consider biomassing your character.

Another point for you crazy people who insist on being lazy. Buy a jump freighter, lowest risk in the game, all you need is a cyno alt and a few braincells, however if you agree with the OP you're probably lacking in both of those areas.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#114 - 2012-11-18 13:44:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
I own a freighter and have frequently moved billions of ISK worth of stuff with it. Never lost one.

If your freighters died, they died either in Niarja or Uedema. In other words use a scout through those two systems.
Very very few people suicide ganks freighters anywhere else.

Edit: The first thing I did, when looking to buy a Freighter was to look up how to keep one safe. It's a big investment and if your daft enough to not try and protect something so valuable, your going to lose it.

UAxSunShine wrote:
When will people learn not to carry anything more than the value of the ship they are transporting in it? It's basic eve stuff I learnt it within a month of playing.


Hahaha. No offence, and I agree with you in general by the way, but your talking **** there. If a freighter pilot wants to earn any ISK, he needs to move as much value as possible each trip, otherwise it's not worth buying the freighter for.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2012-11-18 13:45:06 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
i'm not so sure.

mining barges needed rebalancing, regardless of hulkageddon and ganking. also the crucial difference is that an EMPTY exhumer was profitable to gank. is an empty freighter profitable to gank?

there are some subtle but important differences.

While it's true a hulk was profitably gankable while empty, it was easy as all hell to make it unprofitable to gank by fitting a few mods.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#116 - 2012-11-18 13:45:32 UTC
Dave stark wrote:


i'm not so sure.

mining barges needed rebalancing, regardless of hulkageddon and ganking. also the crucial difference is that an EMPTY exhumer was profitable to gank. is an empty freighter profitable to gank?

there are some subtle but important differences.


Barges were only profitable if they fitted no tank and full rack of t2 mining lasers and MLU. Just about every subcap can be ganked for profit if they fit no tank and have a t2 fitting.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2012-11-18 13:46:00 UTC
Lorna Mood wrote:
Xinivrae wrote:
Lorna Mood wrote:
I've lost a freighter to this exploit, and yes, using the bumping mechanic to get the kill IS an exploit.


I'll just leave this here...



I am fully aware that is not against the rules so the use of the word "exploit" was probably misleading.

What I meant is that being able to bump a freighter with a ship the size of a spec of dust is quitely frankly ludicrous and it's this game mechanic that needs looking at.

I'm not in any way suggesting making hi sec 'safer' or stopping anyones fun who wants to shoot things.


It's EVE-Physics, not real physics. The whole ship-banking and having a level up-and-down is ludicrous too, as is the lack of inertia when you wind the engines down. There's a lot of things in the game that in reality don't make sense. Fortunately, it's a game, and it's fictional, which means the devs can use whatever physics they want to use.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2012-11-18 13:46:32 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
I own a freighter and have frequently moved billions of ISK worth of stuff with it. Never lost one.

If your freighters died, they died either in Niarja or Uedema. In other words use a scout through those two systems.
Very very few people suicide ganks freighters anywhere else.

UAxSunShine wrote:
When will people learn not to carry anything more than the value of the ship they are transporting in it? It's basic eve stuff I learnt it within a month of playing.


Hahaha. No offence, and I agree with you in general by the way, but your talking **** there. If a freighter pilot wants to earn any ISK, he needs to move as much value as possible each trip, otherwise it's not worth buying the freighter for.


Hek.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#119 - 2012-11-18 13:47:24 UTC
Lorna Mood wrote:
Xinivrae wrote:
Lorna Mood wrote:
I've lost a freighter to this exploit, and yes, using the bumping mechanic to get the kill IS an exploit.


I'll just leave this here...



I am fully aware that is not against the rules so the use of the word "exploit" was probably misleading.

What I meant is that being able to bump a freighter with a ship the size of a spec of dust is quitely frankly ludicrous and it's this game mechanic that needs looking at.

I'm not in any way suggesting making hi sec 'safer' or stopping anyones fun who wants to shoot things.


Or you can use one of the many ways currently in game to deal with bumping.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2012-11-18 13:48:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Lorna Mood wrote:
I am fully aware that is not against the rules so the use of the word "exploit" was probably misleading.

What I meant is that being able to bump a freighter with a ship the size of a spec of dust is quitely frankly ludicrous and it's this game mechanic that needs looking at.

I'm not in any way suggesting making hi sec 'safer' or stopping anyones fun who wants to shoot things.

I don't think players' use of bumping is unfair. I remember, though (and this is before minerbumping etc) either CCP or a dev remarked that they didn't like how bumping worked as it is, but didn't have any real better ideas. They were talking about fleets of supercapitals mass jumping to a cyno at the time but I think it implies CCP dissatisfaction with the bumping mechanic in general?

That was up to a year ago, though, and might have been just the opinion of one developer

e: is likely* the opinion of just one dev