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New crusier and impact on pricing and production.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#21 - 2012-11-17 00:39:47 UTC
5,241 Procurers left to sell? You certainly do things in a big scale!

I mass produced Macks, assuming they'd become THE mining ship. Stock's gone since... well since few days past the patch.

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Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#22 - 2012-11-17 00:53:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Skydell
corestwo wrote:
Skydell wrote:

Most of these people I can kind of chuckle at. You of all people should know better.
Even if they do go out of their way to keep someone from doing mass reproc, there aren't enough minerals in every T1 cruiser effected in the game to make a single Titan.


Were I allowed to refine the cruisers I have building at their new values, I would produce nearly a full titan's worth of minerals out of thin air, just on my own. Of course, were I allowed to do that I'd probably be building a heck of a lot more of them. The concept of a "mineral fountain" from these changes is a valid concern, so you have no idea what you're talking about.

Also, "affected" is the word you want, not "effected". Regardless, if you actually believe there's a way to reprocess the ships at their new value, well, I've got 5,241 Procurers that I'll sell you for half their new mineral price, and there are many hundreds or thousands more available on the markets.

Twelve cruisers, not eight, are changing upwards in value, with the smallest change being a ~60% increase and the largest being a full ~100% increase. This actually includes the Omen, so again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

The only part of your post that's correct is that some cruisers see a decrease. However, compared to the increases in the others, this is negligible. The drop in price for a Maller after the patch will be about 600k, for example (at ME0).


The takeaway from this post, by the way, is that you should probably stop posting. It makes you look foolish.


And it makes you look OCD
Next time I post I will staple to memory the exact numbers of every T1 cruiser for every mineral.

Here is what I know.

I bought, I didn't make any cruisers. I bought them at 5000000. There are already market buy orders in Jita for 6000000. That's more than 5000000.

So you go back to your OCD micro management. I will stick to old fashioned, rough guesstimates. So you won't think highly of my fast and loose? I really don't much care Lol
Ravenclaw2kk
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-11-17 02:03:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Ravenclaw2kk
Skydell wrote:


And it makes you look OCD
Next time I post I will staple to memory the exact numbers of every T1 cruiser for every mineral.

Here is what I know.

I bought, I didn't make any cruisers. I bought them at 5000000. There are already market buy orders in Jita for 6000000. That's more than 5000000.

So you go back to your OCD micro management. I will stick to old fashioned, rough guesstimates. So you won't think highly of my fast and loose? I really don't much care Lol



It really doesn't take much micromanagement when you can make spreadsheets of the new and old mineral requirements.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#24 - 2012-11-17 04:46:17 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
Skydell wrote:

And it makes you look OCD
Next time I post I will staple to memory the exact numbers of every T1 cruiser for every mineral.

Here is what I know.

I bought, I didn't make any cruisers. I bought them at 5000000. There are already market buy orders in Jita for 6000000. That's more than 5000000.

So you go back to your OCD micro management. I will stick to old fashioned, rough guesstimates. So you won't think highly of my fast and loose? I really don't much care Lol


What I don't think highly of is being wrong, actually. And, uh, everything I just posted, by my standards, is fast and loose.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
5,241 Procurers left to sell? You certainly do things in a big scale!

I mass produced Macks, assuming they'd become THE mining ship. Stock's gone since... well since few days past the patch.

And all the Retrievers I had have already sold too. What's your point?

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#25 - 2012-11-17 06:05:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Skydell
corestwo wrote:
Skydell wrote:

And it makes you look OCD
Next time I post I will staple to memory the exact numbers of every T1 cruiser for every mineral.

Here is what I know.

I bought, I didn't make any cruisers. I bought them at 5000000. There are already market buy orders in Jita for 6000000. That's more than 5000000.

So you go back to your OCD micro management. I will stick to old fashioned, rough guesstimates. So you won't think highly of my fast and loose? I really don't much care Lol


What I don't think highly of is being wrong, actually. And, uh, everything I just posted, by my standards, is fast and loose.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
5,241 Procurers left to sell? You certainly do things in a big scale!

I mass produced Macks, assuming they'd become THE mining ship. Stock's gone since... well since few days past the patch.

And all the Retrievers I had have already sold too. What's your point?


You just offered to sell them to me at .5 current mineral cost. I guess that's a no go deal?
No worries, I'm no where near as stubborn as you are.

If you can get them cheap OP, grab em. You might need to hold on to them but they will sell higher than you bought em for, or made them for. EVE markets by their nature look for upward trends, not downward.
In addition, they are pretty good ships now. If worse comes to worse, I will be getting cheap EWar thrills for a year, double damping Machariels.

-

Add On: I just did another test server check and they are all higher in comparison now. (only checked Amarr T1)

As corestwo pointed out, they reproc old stat. Using this as a way to quick boost your mineral stocks won't work. Getting stuff cheap that won't be cheap much longer? Yep.

Off topic, if they follow this trend, reproc won't be an option on anything. You will only have around 40% returns at best. Less, a lot less in Null outposts with no facility upgrades.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#26 - 2012-11-17 07:53:26 UTC
corestwo wrote:

And all the Retrievers I had have already sold too. What's your point?


The other person above said it, albeit in a more abrasive way than I'd have.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#27 - 2012-11-17 07:58:32 UTC
Ah, I forgot.

There's also another category, one where minerals are used in huge quantities.
That category is currently exploding with mineral orders and no, it's not cruisers.

Right this morning I have been once again completely depleted of all my stock (for the 4th time in this week), therefore that thing is really running strong.

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Ravenclaw2kk
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-11-17 13:34:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ravenclaw2kk
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Ah, I forgot.

There's also another category, one where minerals are used in huge quantities.
That category is currently exploding with mineral orders and no, it's not cruisers.

Right this morning I have been once again completely depleted of all my stock (for the 4th time in this week), therefore that thing is really running strong.


Your not talking about the 3 frigs are you as you really can;t build many on each character to make much difference
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#29 - 2012-11-17 16:04:36 UTC
Ravenclaw2kk wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Ah, I forgot.

There's also another category, one where minerals are used in huge quantities.
That category is currently exploding with mineral orders and no, it's not cruisers.

Right this morning I have been once again completely depleted of all my stock (for the 4th time in this week), therefore that thing is really running strong.


Your not talking about the 3 frigs are you as you really can;t build many on each character to make much difference


No I am talking about another manufacturing sector that ATM are building way bigger things than cruisers at full speed.

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shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-11-17 18:07:23 UTC  |  Edited by: shar'ra matcevsovski
Skydell wrote:

Even if they do go out of their way to keep someone from doing mass reproc, there aren't enough minerals in every T1 cruiser effected in the game to make a single Titan.


I guess your new to the MD forums, but why you just dont look the procurer/retriever speculation threads up wich just happened only 3-4 month ago and finally quit posting?

Skydell wrote:

Back to the OP. Yes, there are changes. Some like the Celestis will have 200% Zydrine requirements, 150% trit. They should be running around 9 mill when the dust settles


Have you actually ever heard of the term"supply and demand" or why is buildcost still all that matters for you. For example a procurer still costs around 25 mil to build, but they are getting sold for 5-6 mil...take a wild guess why.Roll

shar'ra phone home
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#31 - 2012-11-17 18:13:41 UTC
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:

Have you actually ever heard of the term"supply and demand" or why is buildcost still all that matters for you. For example a procurer still costs around 25 mil to build, but they are getting sold for 5-6 mil...take a wild guess why.Roll


Well to be fair he's absolutely right. Given the current mineral prices a Celestis will, in fact, land at 9m or so given today's mineral prices, after the dust settles.


The dust may just not settle for months. Lol

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-11-17 19:27:16 UTC
corestwo wrote:
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:

Have you actually ever heard of the term"supply and demand" or why is buildcost still all that matters for you. For example a procurer still costs around 25 mil to build, but they are getting sold for 5-6 mil...take a wild guess why.Roll


Well to be fair he's absolutely right. Given the current mineral prices a Celestis will, in fact, land at 9m or so given today's mineral prices, after the dust settles.


The dust may just not settle for months. Lol


well nobody was doubting his buildcost calculation there, but his conclusion that this has anything to do with the sale price right after patch...IIRC in the two weeks the changes were known, the 500 proc BPO that got sold in jita just in these 2 weeks could already have created an over production of 5 years+...I´ve seen planetary collisions settling dust quicker

shar'ra phone home
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#33 - 2012-11-17 20:47:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Sizeof Void
Well, all I can say is that anyone who really wants to jump on the "build it now for cheap" bandwagon better already have those frigates and cruisers BPOs researched up and in the manufacturing queues.

Many of the high sec ship building geeks have already been stocking up since the tiericide numbers for the upgraded frigs and cruisers were first posted by Fozzie in the Features & Ideas Discussion forums. The numbers of ships sitting around in hangers in the trade hubs ranges between the thousands and tens of thousands, from what I hear.

On the flip side, however... unlike the Procurer, I expect the upgraded frig/cruiser stock to move decently on the market. The Procurer is a low turnover ship - they are not used in PVP, they are not as popular as the Retriever for mining, and they are (very) difficult to gank (ie. they don't need to be replaced often). The upgraded frigs and cruisers should die in large numbers, as everyone starts playing around with them in PVP. Prices on most of them should reach the new manufacturing cost equilibrium within a few months.

My prediction is that folks who build the cheaper cruisers now and hold on to their stock until mid-next year should do fairly well.

If I were going to speculate on specific ships, however, I'd guess that the T1 logi cruisers will be the biggest sellers. The buff is a bit OP, making them nearly as effective as a T2 logi, at a fraction of the cost and training. And, who doesn't like more logi support in their gang/fleet?
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#34 - 2012-11-17 21:03:48 UTC
corestwo wrote:

...well, I've got 5,241 Procurers that I'll sell you for half their new mineral price, and there are many hundreds or thousands more available on the markets.

lol... I think you Goons need to sponsor a month or two of Hulkageddon, to help you unload that stock. If you can arrange to pop every Retriever and Mackinaw in high sec, perhaps the miners would switch to Procurers and Skiffs.
Ravenclaw2kk
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-11-18 01:21:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ravenclaw2kk
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Ravenclaw2kk wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Ah, I forgot.

There's also another category, one where minerals are used in huge quantities.
That category is currently exploding with mineral orders and no, it's not cruisers.

Right this morning I have been once again completely depleted of all my stock (for the 4th time in this week), therefore that thing is really running strong.


Your not talking about the 3 frigs are you as you really can;t build many on each character to make much difference


No I am talking about another manufacturing sector that ATM are building way bigger things than cruisers at full speed.



ah you're talking about the battleship/battlecruiser speculation that will be coming up in the patch after this. If you have enough isk to fill your lines with BS for the next 6 months, then hats off to you, but to fill 1 character with builds until the next patch would cost 100's of billions of isk.

Moving back to this patch, the money will be in cruisers, but there are only a few with a 200% mineral requirement, most are around 150%. there are only 3 frigs worth speculating in, but due to the build times, you really can't dump that much isk in to. The volume on the (even the most popular) frigs in jita is only around 500 units a day, i know i personally will have at least 20,000 of them and i have already sold 2,000. I would guess that the prices of the frigs will stay low for a lot longer than that of the cruisers.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#36 - 2012-11-18 09:34:44 UTC
Ravenclaw2kk wrote:

ah you're talking about the battleship/battlecruiser speculation


No.

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Celi Annor
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-11-18 09:41:15 UTC
I wonder who has the most building atm. I'm willing to bet on cores! :D

I personally have 80 lines going 24/7. But thinking about slowing down because I went overboard last patch.

Havn't sold a single one, still holding 43k Procurors :S
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#38 - 2012-11-18 12:08:53 UTC
Celi Annor wrote:
I wonder who has the most building atm. I'm willing to bet on cores! :D

I personally have 80 lines going 24/7. But thinking about slowing down because I went overboard last patch.

Havn't sold a single one, still holding 43k Procurors :S


Hello Celi, long time no see!

Yes I suggest yout not to push too hard because it's very late and these easy to predict patch effects attract zillions of lemmings who crash the profits.

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Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#39 - 2012-11-19 00:44:01 UTC
Celi Annor wrote:
Havn't sold a single one, still holding 43k Procurors :S

This is just greed, on your part. Admit it. :)

Those Procs cost you less than 2.2M each to build and you could easily be unloading them on buy orders for 6-7M each, which is still a tidy profit.
Herr Hammer Draken
#40 - 2012-11-19 06:57:25 UTC
Skydell wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Skydell wrote:

Most of these people I can kind of chuckle at. You of all people should know better.
Even if they do go out of their way to keep someone from doing mass reproc, there aren't enough minerals in every T1 cruiser effected in the game to make a single Titan.


Were I allowed to refine the cruisers I have building at their new values, I would produce nearly a full titan's worth of minerals out of thin air, just on my own. Of course, were I allowed to do that I'd probably be building a heck of a lot more of them. The concept of a "mineral fountain" from these changes is a valid concern, so you have no idea what you're talking about.

Also, "affected" is the word you want, not "effected". Regardless, if you actually believe there's a way to reprocess the ships at their new value, well, I've got 5,241 Procurers that I'll sell you for half their new mineral price, and there are many hundreds or thousands more available on the markets.

Twelve cruisers, not eight, are changing upwards in value, with the smallest change being a ~60% increase and the largest being a full ~100% increase. This actually includes the Omen, so again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

The only part of your post that's correct is that some cruisers see a decrease. However, compared to the increases in the others, this is negligible. The drop in price for a Maller after the patch will be about 600k, for example (at ME0).


The takeaway from this post, by the way, is that you should probably stop posting. It makes you look foolish.


And it makes you look OCD
Next time I post I will staple to memory the exact numbers of every T1 cruiser for every mineral.

Here is what I know.

I bought, I didn't make any cruisers. I bought them at 5000000. There are already market buy orders in Jita for 6000000. That's more than 5000000.

So you go back to your OCD micro management. I will stick to old fashioned, rough guesstimates. So you won't think highly of my fast and loose? I really don't much care Lol


If you are buying these T1 cruisers in an attempt to make minerals out of thin air, well that is not going to happen.
In fact you may even lose value if you reproccess all the T1 cruisers. Repacking them all is certainly a complete waste of time.
Go ahead, knock yourself out.

But you are not wasting your money, as you should be able to sell them at a profit. However the return over time may not be that great considereing how long it will take to unload them at a decent profit.

There is another mechanic at work here which is interesting. The bottom price deal is the reproccess to mineral value which is lower not higher than the price you paid for them. So unloading them for mineral value is not going to happen.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
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