Science & Industry

Why does something have to be reduced in nullsec?

Why not increase costs (in materials, ISK & time) in hisec?

in order to boost nullsec industry the following has to happen:


- fix extremly stupid corp rules
- fix the terrible pos system we currently have
- more than one outpost per system !
- more manufactoring slots
- more lowend minerals in nullsec (spodumain !)
- nerf highsec industry, the bigger, more technically advanced and more expensive something is, the higher the ISK price to rent a production line from NPCs should be
- nerf highsec refineries ! they are instant, 100% and free ...
- nerf mineral compression

you can not have reasonable 00 producton without easy transporting

nobody said that nullsec alliances should only produce for themselves...


edit:



more expensive highsec production would actually introduce a margin for the end price to cover the costs that come with running a huge industrial system in 00 (fuel, jumpfreighters, rorquals, outposts ...)

and thats why highsec industry needs to be nerfed, so that it is more expensive to produce there, especially the big and technically advanced stuff.

without safe and cheap transportation there is no point in doing industry in 00, because you can't get your stuff to the markets (jita, amaar, rens, dodixie, ...)

about loosing jobs: thats something that will happen once every year or so, nullsec is pretty stable. and even if it happens, there is a warning in advance that gives more than enough time to evacuate expensive stuff. and even if you are locked in a station, just sell your stuff there or pay someone to move it to highsec for you (i easily got my tengu transported from a tribute system to jita by a goon after NCdot lost the station, i only needed to pay 15 million ISK for him to help me.

some people will even happily pay 500 billion collateral to get a few hundred million ISK for transporting a T2 BPO from a newly conquered 00 station to lowsec safety, it might be hard to find them, but everyone has a price

The highsec carebears all agree that fixing highsec means making miners unbumpable and preventing people from ganking freighters as first steps.

Next, we will deal with those wardec types...

I still think there's no need to nerf high sec once null sec is buff, because once null is buff and players still choose to stay in high sec doing industry then the problem comes from something else, and that something else like it or hate it makes part of the sandbox and you will have to deal with it.
If you buff null sec you automatically nerf high sec, so there's no need to nerf it further then.



There will always be a bigger idiot, that's life.

Another point to make is that if low end ores are that cheap it's because it's far too easy to transport them in all safety from null sec to high sec. Another reason why freighters should be nerf, they should not be the "I win" transport mode and carry billions of stuff in all safety from Jita undock to whatever place in low then null and vice versa.

Once this easy mode "I win" transport button is taken away, make it so regular carriers can't take jump bridges etc (lol), high end ores will be more interesting and create a lot more pvp content than right now all you have to do is undock and hit jump button, dock and unload your precious crap. WAW, very risky indeed.

It's as afk "I win rocks" high sec mining, but it's better because travels from high to null like no other ship in game can.

Edit: and perfectly safe. By the way, if jump freighters really risk something is travelling in high sec, not in low or null sec and the number of kills done by Bat Country and other folks doing it proves it, Jump Freighters are risk free in null sec when they clearly shouldn't.

I do a bit of nullsec industry. But I'm completely honest with the fact that I'm a big nerd and a bit of a masochist.

IF (big IF here) there is a vibrant market in your region, there are probably several items that can be produced locally from locally obtained materials. I do some rigs, ratting ammo, and some T1 hulls. And actually, the smaller and more disposable hulls are the better deal. People just don't lose battleships at the same rate as frigates and destroyers, so importing battleships isn't a huge issue. Nullsec production is already enough of a pain, and nullsec markets are so limited, you don't want to tie up too much minerals or isk in BS hulls that may sit for a month or more. Cyno and tackle frigate hulls on the other hand get lost a lot and sell fast.

In my experience, factory slot availability isn't a big problem. Getting the minerals is. I either have to ship them in compressed, luck out on picking up a hauler spawn, or luck out on a local miner dumping some low ends on the market. However, if mineral availability was no longer an issue, slots would very quickly used up.


You can certainly supplement your income with nullsec industry. Combine that with some nullsec PI, and you could pay for your plex with fairly passive income. But the only serious full-time nullsec industry is cap ship production. Everythign else is so limited to basically be a hobby.

This subject has, to my understanding of nullsec, already been answered.

Last time i was in nullsec, I had to transport minerals from one station to another to get from the 50% refining station to the manufacturing station only to find that the what, 10 slots? in the station had been filled already for a long while.

While this was an isolated incident its representative of the problem with nullsec industry as a whole. player outposts are so bad in comparison to hisec stations that real logistics are stupidly difficult. especially when you arent a jf wielding 10 accounter.

returning sometime later to my hisec homelands i found that one station in almost every system would have suited my needs better then the two stations a jump apart in null. more corp office spaces, more manufacturing slots, better refineries, more research slots, more station services several stations in the same system...

To do in null as effectively what i did and now do in hisec i would have needed much more in assets then i was prepared to gamble. several more characters and quite a few more ships were the baseline i felt was needed to accomplish the same sort of industry efficiency that i now regularly achieve in hisec with one and a small handful of ships.

Things to fix in null
1 station services need to match or exceed hisec stations (hell we/they dont have to abide by concord rules, why is mineral efficiency lower in general then hisec? or are limited to one station? sure there will have to be some rule changes about sov takeover, but when hast there been a need to change sov rules?)

2 POS industry modules need a revamp (and pos in general but i hear thats been coming for the past decade)

3 Make sure that ore distribution and amounts are more favorable in nullsec then in any other space. It is not enough that there are better types of asteroid, there needs to quite simply be more of them.

4 and of course as i am forever saying, Give some real empire building options to the game. My personal favorite is sovereignty level granted npc navies on par with empire navies by system for lots of isk.

Null sec manufacturing is far far more common in NULL than most PVPers realize.

Manufacturing is not the same as mining. Completely different activities although they are closely related.

Null sec mining is only common in secured SOV NULL space. But everywhere else, even in NPC null manufacturing is very common. You just ship in the minerals from high sec.

If you are going to use a jump freighter to bring 24 packaged battleships(8 per load) into null to use or sell would it not be much safer to jump in enough minerals to build 50 of them with a single jump freighter trip?

Just because players outside of the big alliances have trouble finding places in null to mine, does not mean they do not still manufacture in null.

All this crying that higsec manufacturing should be nerfed. I disagree.. Its not highsec thats needs fixing its 0.0.

Player owned outposts has limited production cababilities and refinery cababilities to begin with. Add that to fact that 0.0 is sand box for little warlords and you can clearly see 0.0 was not meant to industry, ccp has clearly meant it for place of conflight.

Personally i think 0.0 still needs a lot of development work from ccp, before it comes even semi decent place for manufacturing.

Why do people feel thats highsec manufacturing is so bad? Most serious manufacturers in highsec are alts of 0.0 players anyways.

So yes, i think highsec is fine as it is, but nullsec needs a lot of atention. Currently it just dosent suport serious industry in scale you little warlords with your armies needs it. So you have to import, if you dont, you can be sure your enemy does. even if someone buils ships in 0.0 outpost, he probably imports minerals from highsec becouse volumes needed just are not available locally. Thats something to think about. Warlords running arround wageing their newer ending wars, none has time to mine, mineral shortage, you need to import minerals if you want to build those 50 ships to replace loses.

So maybe its us who live most of our time in 0.0 thats are to blame? Highsec just offers much more stable enviroment to mine, manufacture and sell. You dont suddenly loose access to stations just becouse someone is pissed off to someone else, etc.. not to mention that everyone and their grandma is not trying to kill you in highsec. in 0.0 just becouse they are blue to you, dosent mean your blue to them. Mistakes happen.

Personally i would be happy for few changes in nullsec outpost:

-Some reasonable basic refinery in every outpost
-Basic building cababilities on every outpost in scale couple industry characters can work there
-Industry upgrades that really gives you pile of manufacturing lines more, not just couple, but dosens, maybe someone actually install those upgrades then?
- Small time bonus for manufacturing in 0.0 10 - 15% maybe?

Also these might open up some interesting tug a war options for future sov system implementations... make gorilla strike on few key locations in system and they loose time bonus for week or even go to time penalty ;) Etc...