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Fix Black Ops (especially jump range)

Author
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#1 - 2012-11-14 21:04:40 UTC
Right now all the black ops battleships are a joke. They cost about a billion simply for the hull, their combnat effectiveness is semi effective at best (Being nice here) and their jump range is total crap.

Their range should be increased to at least the range of Titan bridges and lower the fuel cost. After all the only thing you are jumping through is bombers, and recon ships, b oth of which are paper thin for the most part. Tis plays into the role of "behind enemy lines operations." As it stands you are faster to just jump the systems rather than set up a jump chain to blops with.

Next, Blops should be able to fit on a cov ops shield and let them warp cloaked. Keep their cloak speed bonus and make them viable ships beyond just jumping over a buddle as a quirky joke.
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#2 - 2012-11-14 21:42:01 UTC
i agre. black ops are a kewl idea, but their range and usefulness is a huge factor.
my redeemer is kewl as hell. the thought of being able to jump behind a bubble and bomb whats on the other side is "neet" but they should be able to span SEVERAL systems to reach that big kill.

keep the same fuel cost, but give us a ton of range since, as you said, the poo we are flingin is paper thin.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#3 - 2012-11-14 21:51:10 UTC
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-11-14 22:00:55 UTC
+1

Black Ops need a more defined role, either focus them on there ability to bridge and give them bonuses to range and fuel usage or spec them more towards the combat role. Right now they are trying to do both and failing hard.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#5 - 2012-11-14 22:04:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Black ops need love, in their current form they are almost only used by the most risk averse of blobbers and gatecampers.


That is, buff them in a way that makes them usable by less risk-averse people. The jump range is not the problem
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2012-11-14 22:39:15 UTC
Supporting. Range and fuel consumption are the biggest problems with them. I don't even care all that much about their "combat effectiveness."
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
The Burning Contingent Alliance
#7 - 2012-11-14 22:59:19 UTC
+1
Anemone221
Diamond Dogs.
Mercenaires Sans Frontieres.
#8 - 2012-11-14 23:03:46 UTC
AGREED give my widow some love i would love to make it where i can bridge from jita to a system in heimitar with only 3 or 4 bridges instead of 8 or 9
Kitt JT
True North.
#9 - 2012-11-14 23:21:19 UTC
As a proud owner of a widow:

Honestly, I think they're pretty good as-is. Covops cloak would make them OP, as would i think significantly increased jump range.

Having them uncommon means that people don't expect them nearly as much, as if they had huge jump range, could warp cloaked, and were better combat ships than their t1 counterparts.

The fact that they cost 800m or so for the hull really means nothing. COST IS NOT A BALANCING FACTOR!

That said, the blops has fuel issues. They either need a significantly larger fuel bay, or a fuel consumption bonus.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#10 - 2012-11-14 23:21:48 UTC
Anemone221 wrote:
AGREED give my widow some love i would love to make it where i can bridge from jita to a system in heimitar with only 3 or 4 bridges instead of 8 or 9

Seriously, I would give them the same range as a carrier.
I see no reason for them to not have this.

They simply have no real threat to the carrier's role, so no duplication:
They cannot carry the same cargo.
They cannot bridge anything but CovOps capable ships.
Defensively, they are not comparable to carriers in anyone's imagination.
Offensively, they are not comparable to carriers in anyone's imagination.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2012-11-15 00:36:39 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Anemone221 wrote:
AGREED give my widow some love i would love to make it where i can bridge from jita to a system in heimitar with only 3 or 4 bridges instead of 8 or 9

Seriously, I would give them the same range as a carrier.
I see no reason for them to not have this.

They simply have no real threat to the carrier's role, so no duplication:
They cannot carry the same cargo.
They cannot bridge anything but CovOps capable ships.
Defensively, they are not comparable to carriers in anyone's imagination.
Offensively, they are not comparable to carriers in anyone's imagination.



Dread range, maybe. They are a lot smaller than caps don't forget.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#12 - 2012-11-15 00:40:35 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Anemone221 wrote:
AGREED give my widow some love i would love to make it where i can bridge from jita to a system in heimitar with only 3 or 4 bridges instead of 8 or 9

Seriously, I would give them the same range as a carrier.
I see no reason for them to not have this.

They simply have no real threat to the carrier's role, so no duplication:
They cannot carry the same cargo.
They cannot bridge anything but CovOps capable ships.
Defensively, they are not comparable to carriers in anyone's imagination.
Offensively, they are not comparable to carriers in anyone's imagination.



Dread range, maybe. They are a lot smaller than caps don't forget.



But you're only moving frigs and cruisers, and a very distinct type. Extended range would give them the ability to fulfill the role they were set out to do.


I still think that they should also have some damage potential as well. Without that, they're just glorified jumpbridges.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2012-11-15 01:13:48 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:



But you're only moving frigs and cruisers, and a very distinct type. Extended range would give them the ability to fulfill the role they were set out to do.


I still think that they should also have some damage potential as well. Without that, they're just glorified jumpbridges.



looking at the numbers, a JDC 5 blackops can go 4.5 light years. a JDC 5 dread can go 11, a carrier, 14. A titan, 7.8

I think titan range would be fair, don't you? Same range as a non covert bridge isn't too bad.

Definitely agree on the damage potential though. poor things shouldn't be weaker than thier T1 counterparts.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#14 - 2012-11-15 01:28:00 UTC
Honestly I think it should have the greatest range of any ship. A small irregular force should have a better way to project itself deep in enemy territory, than a main invading force.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-11-15 01:46:40 UTC
Im ok with them being less combat capable than there t1 counterparts, as they should be able to fit a covert ops cloak. Extra jump range would be great if it were a bonus from the black ops skill, say 10%/level

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#16 - 2012-11-17 19:04:29 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Im ok with them being less combat capable than there t1 counterparts, as they should be able to fit a covert ops cloak. Extra jump range would be great if it were a bonus from the black ops skill, say 10%/level


Yeah they don't need to be on par with the T1 variant, but they should be able to get into a fight and still be a decent enough DPS boat to make it worth while.

Their jump range just needs to be fixed, IMO needs to be highest of all.
Anna niedostepny
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#17 - 2012-11-17 19:09:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Anna niedostepny
Black ops should get a .5-1.0 LY extension . I am fine with combat capabilities of the BLOPS as they can defend them selves well enough with a fleet with them. I would say the fuel consumption is a bit extreme. I can bridge a BLOPS through my BLOPS though.... Not practical application but it can hold enough fuel to bridge a BLOPS and about 6-7 bombers.

Just a thought. A long jump range means that it would be a huge module IMO. I just don't feel a BS should have the range. .5-1 LY is sufficient as it is interesting to be creative with staging systems and not be able you be like a carrier and go any where and everywhere.
General Sadistis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-11-17 19:28:07 UTC
In B4 Fucks Given P

On a more serious note i completely endorse this product.

black ops AKA Pigs are called Pigs for a reason... completely useless beyond being a bridge
Captain CarlCosmogasm
Cosmogasm
#19 - 2012-11-17 19:33:54 UTC
I like the Blops as is. It is a battleship with a capital class capability and is groovy with a cloak. I dig the cloaked speed bonus the blops currently has. I find the request to enhance the combat capability of the class unreasonable. I am satisfied with the current jump range, however increasing the blops range isn't unreasonable.

While we are at it, I suggest that the blops stays as is and the marauder receive a sensor strength boost along with a jump drive with a range comparable to the blops.

Cahvus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-11-17 20:48:58 UTC
HUGE +1 for BlOp's Overhaul. The concept is soooo awesome, yet the implementation is rather sub-par Evil

Hopefully the devs can do a nice little passthrough after Retribution!
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