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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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The answer to the ultimate question of Life, the Universe, and Cloaking.

Author
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#21 - 2011-10-20 11:53:38 UTC
Shingorash wrote:
Feligast wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Satav wrote:
hmm,

I like it.

Except for the cyno-delay. No one would be able bring in caps/supers efficiently anymore. But good idea on the disappearing from local.

+1


Hence the exception for Black Ops however. They need the love.


Add recons to the no spool-up list and you might have me here.


T3's should be able to do it as well, there should be a delay on all other ships.


There's the potential for abuse... someone being able to fire off cynos while completely "off the radar" can potentially be a bit imbalanced, hence the restrictions. There should be some specialty ships with the ability, but I don't think simple T3s should be on that list personally, at least not without having, for example, a special subsystem giving that ability at the expense of something else.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#22 - 2011-10-20 13:19:44 UTC
So everytime you engage some ship you will likely have huge blob sitting there cloaked right next to it?

Whats the solution? Have your own cloaked blob because they won't see you either. Roll

It sounds like fun, if and only if, you like bait and blob tactics.

But they aren't my thing so I don't like it.

As has been mentioned in thread after thread. Removing local (or removing it for everyone who can fit a cloak which isn't hard to do) will just help those who want to blob. EVE does not really need a mechanic to help blobbing.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#23 - 2011-10-20 13:30:25 UTC
Cearain wrote:
So everytime you engage some ship you will likely have huge blob sitting there cloaked right next to it?

Whats the solution? Have your own cloaked blob because they won't see you either. Roll

It sounds like fun, if and only if, you like bait and blob tactics.

But they aren't my thing so I don't like it.

As has been mentioned in thread after thread. Removing local (or removing it for everyone who can fit a cloak which isn't hard to do) will just help those who want to blob. EVE does not really need a mechanic to help blobbing.


Wow, you didn't bother thinking that through at all, did you?

The cloaked blob v. blob thing fails simply because you can't simply cloak every ship and form a blob. Only covops can target right when decloaking or even warp while cloaked. At best you may see more smaller skirmishes between covops equipped vessels, T3, etc. but certainly no massive cloaked blobs sitting around. Simply having a cloak equipped wouldn't remove you from local, only actually having the cloak active. This greatly restricts the threat from most ships. Only the specialized few would be able to attempt the hot drop. If you're alert and/or prepared, you can avoid it.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Mr Painless
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-10-20 13:59:59 UTC
I fully support the idea.

One little addition: when a ship jumps in system, there should be a delay (session change time?) during which a ship won't appear in local anyway. This is to give time for ships to recloak after entering system without appearing momentarily in local. If this is not implemented then I'm afraid it will be enough for bots to react an scurry back to safety.

And yes, I hate botting very much - it's killing this game in a subtle, but definite way.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#25 - 2011-10-20 14:06:12 UTC
Mr Painless wrote:
I fully support the idea.

One little addition: when a ship jumps in system, there should be a delay (session change time?) during which a ship won't appear in local anyway. This is to give time for ships to recloak after entering system without appearing momentarily in local. If this is not implemented then I'm afraid it will be enough for bots to react an scurry back to safety.

And yes, I hate botting very much - it's killing this game in a subtle, but definite way.


I'd thought of that... I think there should be that little blink where you appear personally. Give the aware a chance to recognize that something just may be amiss. The bots, let them dock and undock an hour later thinking it's all warm and fuzzy. Gives you plenty of time to set up bot-traps if you wish.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

mxzf
Shovel Bros
#26 - 2011-10-20 14:33:06 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Mr Painless wrote:
I fully support the idea.

One little addition: when a ship jumps in system, there should be a delay (session change time?) during which a ship won't appear in local anyway. This is to give time for ships to recloak after entering system without appearing momentarily in local. If this is not implemented then I'm afraid it will be enough for bots to react an scurry back to safety.

And yes, I hate botting very much - it's killing this game in a subtle, but definite way.


I'd thought of that... I think there should be that little blink where you appear personally. Give the aware a chance to recognize that something just may be amiss. The bots, let them dock and undock an hour later thinking it's all warm and fuzzy. Gives you plenty of time to set up bot-traps if you wish.


This is my preferred method. I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to just have gate cloak not keep you out of Local, only onboard cloaks can cut you off from Local. It really shouldn't be possible to just fill up the system with absolutely no warning, it works for WHs because they move around, but k-space doesn't move around, so it's MUCH easier to target a specific system and bring in people to attack.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#27 - 2011-10-20 16:44:02 UTC
This idea is nearly perfect,

It accounts for cloaker omg spam abuse.
It accounts for allowing cloaker fleets to attack the bots
It allow for MORE smaller combat to happen
It probably will help cut some larger allaicnes down in control size as they'll need more folks to defend from raiders.
All covert ships are going to sell like hotcakes as a combat option.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#28 - 2011-10-20 17:37:39 UTC
its a good idea.

however the problem with this suggestion is that its in fact a workaround for something which has its root cause is the local chat used as intel tool. In long term a real intel tool like a radar or a improved/useable dscan (useable for humans not only for bots) would be of course the better fix...

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#29 - 2011-10-20 17:39:47 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
its a good idea.

however the problem with this suggestion is that its in fact a workaround for something which has its root cause is the local chat used as intel tool. In long term a real intel tool like a radar or a improved/useable dscan (useable for humans not only for bots) would be of course the better fix...


Anything like that would need to preserve the sanctity of the cloak.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#30 - 2011-10-21 01:05:29 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Cearain wrote:
So everytime you engage some ship you will likely have huge blob sitting there cloaked right next to it?

Whats the solution? Have your own cloaked blob because they won't see you either. Roll

It sounds like fun, if and only if, you like bait and blob tactics.

But they aren't my thing so I don't like it.

As has been mentioned in thread after thread. Removing local (or removing it for everyone who can fit a cloak which isn't hard to do) will just help those who want to blob. EVE does not really need a mechanic to help blobbing.


Wow, you didn't bother thinking that through at all, did you?

The cloaked blob v. blob thing fails simply because you can't simply cloak every ship and form a blob. Only covops can target right when decloaking or even warp while cloaked. At best you may see more smaller skirmishes between covops equipped vessels, T3, etc. but certainly no massive cloaked blobs sitting around. Simply having a cloak equipped wouldn't remove you from local, only actually having the cloak active. This greatly restricts the threat from most ships. Only the specialized few would be able to attempt the hot drop. If you're alert and/or prepared, you can avoid it.



Once you engage the bait you get tackled. That is what bait does. The decloaking delay (even on an non cloak bonused ship) does not give you enough time to escape or kill the bait and warp off.

So they will just put a bait ship out and cloak up about 30 k away. As soon as the bait has tackle they uncloak and shoot.

Please tell me, If you are roaming, come in a system and can't see anyone in local other than the bait ship, how are you going to know that blob is there?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#31 - 2011-10-21 02:30:21 UTC
Cearain wrote:


Once you engage the bait you get tackled. That is what bait does. The decloaking delay (even on an non cloak bonused ship) does not give you enough time to escape or kill the bait and warp off.

So they will just put a bait ship out and cloak up about 30 k away. As soon as the bait has tackle they uncloak and shoot.

Please tell me, If you are roaming, come in a system and can't see anyone in local other than the bait ship, how are you going to know that blob is there?


Same as in wormholes... you don't. You have to decide if the potential risk is worth it. Cloak your own ass up, get in range and observe a bit. You'd be surprised how well things can work when you think before leaping into the fray.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#32 - 2011-10-21 09:09:15 UTC
Quote:
And, most importantly, THERE WILL BE NO MORE "AFK CLOAKER" THREADS!

Well thank goodness that's over with!

On another note: /supported. Though I do think CCP should completely rethink how "local" works in general.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#33 - 2011-10-21 09:21:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
You may be aware but I think your idea is balanced and solves the AFK issue.

+1 from me bud.

Edit:
Covert Kitty wrote:
Though I do think CCP should completely rethink how "local" works in general.
Well it will be changing, but in the mean time this will hopefully quell the whine.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Rina Asanari
CitadeI
#34 - 2011-10-21 11:11:30 UTC
Covert ops ships are too easily attainable to allow them to just pop up ANYWHERE in the system (and it's local) and instantly firing up a covert cyno, letting through a blob.

Same as with a cloaker lurking around and giving a signal for the safespotted cyno char to log in, fire up a cyno and let a blob through.

Too much potential for abuse, at least as long as cloaking is not time- or resource limited.

-1

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#35 - 2011-10-21 11:32:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Cearain wrote:


Once you engage the bait you get tackled. That is what bait does. The decloaking delay (even on an non cloak bonused ship) does not give you enough time to escape or kill the bait and warp off.

So they will just put a bait ship out and cloak up about 30 k away. As soon as the bait has tackle they uncloak and shoot.

Please tell me, If you are roaming, come in a system and can't see anyone in local other than the bait ship, how are you going to know that blob is there?




Same as in wormholes... you don't. You have to decide if the potential risk is worth it. Cloak your own ass up, get in range and observe a bit. You'd be surprised how well things can work when you think before leaping into the fray.


So you decide if the potential risk is worth it by sitting there cloaked staring at the ship?? There is a difference between thinking and just sitting there waiting.

What should I be thinking about with no local to tell me if others in his same corp/alliance are there? He is on scan I am sitting in a ship I can fight him in. What is the thought process? Is it I have allot more time on my hands than he does so if he is bait i will wait around for someone else to take it. If he isn't he will eventually warp off and I will lose the pvp opportunty? Fill us in because I think you are the one who hasn't though this through at all.

Ok so your idea is to make it take much longer to find small scale pvp than it does already. This is the opposite of what eve needs.

"Same as in wormholes", were there is far less pvp per person than low or null sec. Remember the EQ statistics from all the other threads you were posting this idea in? Perhaps you could repost them here.

I know you and many like wormholes and the no local aspect. Why don't you all just stay in your wormhole and have your pvp that takes forever to find together.

Judging by the numbers of kills per capita and per system most pvpers don't think making null or low sec "same as in wormholses" is a good idea.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#36 - 2011-10-21 11:40:56 UTC
Rina Asanari wrote:
Covert ops ships are too easily attainable to allow them to just pop up ANYWHERE in the system (and it's local) and instantly firing up a covert cyno, letting through a blob.

Same as with a cloaker lurking around and giving a signal for the safespotted cyno char to log in, fire up a cyno and let a blob through.

Too much potential for abuse, at least as long as cloaking is not time- or resource limited.

-1



Hey Rina, I fully agree with you on that, that's why I put in place the time delay in being able to fire up a cyno when decloaking. I do think certain ships should be allowed exceptions, such as Black Ops, but you're right... the abuse potential definitely demands a time delay on the cyno when uncloaking.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#37 - 2011-10-21 16:06:32 UTC
Not too proud to give myself a little bumpage.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-10-21 16:27:47 UTC
+1 makes sense
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#39 - 2011-10-21 17:26:03 UTC
Don't be ashamed of the bumpage we need to hammer out any more kinks if possible and once its all hammered out we present it to the CSM.

If you know any CSM members have one of them take a look at this idea before presentation.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#40 - 2011-10-21 21:24:49 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Don't be ashamed of the bumpage we need to hammer out any more kinks if possible and once its all hammered out we present it to the CSM.

If you know any CSM members have one of them take a look at this idea before presentation.


Well, it seems pretty close... not seeing any dramatic alterations needed.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.