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Ore Quality by Sec Status
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#41 - 2012-11-17 04:35:38 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Quote:

Reasonable prices for the person running the factory are not always "reasonable" to the pilots blowing up a dozen cruisers and battleships every night.


and thats mostly because the system is stupid


No, it's because the pilots have unreasonable expectations: "I can buy this ship for 200M ISK in Jita, why is it 300M ISK here in the arse end of Branch?" Well, because it costs more to either buy the ship in Jita and jump freighter it down, or collect the minerals and manufacture locally.

Gilbaron wrote:
Quote:
And why the heck would nullsec industry rely on trusting "everyone" with the rights to anchor POSes? That's the most nonsensical strawman argument I've seen for some time.


because you need these rights in order to set up and maintain enough production, research and invention slots


Incorrect. You only need one person in the corporation with the rights to anchor anything. Everyone else only needs rent slot, wallet access & factory manager role. Thus all your untrusted newbies get put into the low end industry corp which has the research & invention labs dealing with lower end equipment. The worst that they can do is cancel some research jobs and run away with the BPOs that end up in hangars that they have access to, or cancel invention jobs (and end up with nothing, because everything is consumed in the invention attempt).

Thus the newbie corp can have seven levels of trust (e.g.: jobs worth 1M, 10M, 100M, 1B ISK).

The main reason that people don't want industry in nullsec is that with the industry infrastructure comes the responsibility of defending that infrastructure.

If you want farms & fields to burn in the other guy's territory, you have to stop the other guys burning your farms and fields.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-11-17 04:45:42 UTC
Quote:
No, it's because the pilots have unreasonable expectations: "I can buy this ship for 200M ISK in Jita, why is it 300M ISK here in the arse end of Branch?" Well, because it costs more to either buy the ship in Jita and jump freighter it down, or collect the minerals and manufacture locally.


did i mention before that this system is stupid ? it should be the other way around ...

Quote:

Incorrect. You only need one person in the corporation with the rights to anchor anything.


that guy will absolutely love his job to build a pos from scratch for every single dude who wants to build his own rifters

Quote:
Everyone else only needs rent slot, wallet access & factory manager role.

"only"

Quote:
Thus all your untrusted newbies get put into the low end industry corp which has the research & invention labs dealing with lower end equipment.


lovely, dealing with more stupid corp role interfacing, managing another 20 corporations in your alliance, and dont forget, another nice guy to maintain even more POS

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-11-17 04:46:07 UTC

Quote:
The worst that they can do is cancel some research jobs and run away with the BPOs that end up in hangars that they have access to, or cancel invention jobs (and end up with nothing, because everything is consumed in the invention attempt).


yeah, totally harmless

Quote:
Thus the newbie corp can have seven levels of trust (e.g.: jobs worth 1M, 10M, 100M, 1B ISK).


totally not confusing and way to much clicky clicky

Quote:
The main reason that people don't want industry in nullsec is that with the industry infrastructure comes the responsibility of defending that infrastructure.

If you want farms & fields to burn in the other guy's territory, you have to stop the other guys burning your farms and fields.


more pvp ? where do i sign up ?
Nylith Empyreal
Sutar Rein
#44 - 2012-11-17 04:56:44 UTC
Perhaps make said 'epic' ores from lowsec etc. make better quality ships? i.e. 'named' basic ship-hulls. I must admit I'm just throwing a wild thought at the topic, good or bad idgaf.

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#45 - 2012-11-17 04:57:51 UTC
Nylith Empyreal wrote:
Perhaps make said 'epic' ores from lowsec etc. make better quality ships? i.e. 'named' basic ship-hulls. I must admit I'm just throwing a wild thought at the topic, good or bad idgaf.

Wait.

Like the named ships get bonuses by sec?

I don't follow.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#46 - 2012-11-17 04:59:22 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

You are correct about the outposts.

But whether you like it / agree with it or not, current g̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶m̶e̶c̶h̶a̶n̶i̶c̶s̶ ̶ alliance policies do not allow for those moons to be occupied by rank-and-file members.

It's that simple.

While the corp interface is possibly the most broken part of this game and has been since forever, 0.0 manufacturing is bad because the players have made it so.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#47 - 2012-11-17 05:00:59 UTC
Schalac wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

You are correct about the outposts.

But whether you like it / agree with it or not, current g̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶m̶e̶c̶h̶a̶n̶i̶c̶s̶ ̶ alliance policies do not allow for those moons to be occupied by rank-and-file members.

It's that simple.

While the corp interface is possibly the most broken part of this game and has been since forever, 0.0 manufacturing is bad because the players have made it so.

That's probably why a little over a year ago CCP drew up the Big White Board.

It doesn't matter that they scrapped it in favor of rebalancing, they still did it.

One of the main items of focus on the Big White Board happened to be industry.

Somehow, I doubt that was due to a failure in emergent gameplay.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Nylith Empyreal
Sutar Rein
#48 - 2012-11-17 05:01:55 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Nylith Empyreal wrote:
Perhaps make said 'epic' ores from lowsec etc. make better quality ships? i.e. 'named' basic ship-hulls. I must admit I'm just throwing a wild thought at the topic, good or bad idgaf.

Wait.

Like the named ships get bonuses by sec?

I don't follow.


No no, was merely suggesting some odd way at making different meta levels for t1 ship hulls or perhaps ways to make different meta levels with different t1 modules via some rare variations of ore in low/nullsec. Forgive me I said named cause I'm stuck in a different games mindset. I.e. making modal blasters or anode etc etc. via the special ore or w/e.

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#49 - 2012-11-17 05:05:01 UTC
Trying to increase traffic in low-sec, by boosting supply for a player traded resource, a resource collected by mining ships?

I left a few hints for you, see if you can figure out what's wrong with your idea Blink
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-11-17 05:23:00 UTC
Schalac wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

You are correct about the outposts.

But whether you like it / agree with it or not, current g̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶m̶e̶c̶h̶a̶n̶i̶c̶s̶ ̶ alliance policies do not allow for those moons to be occupied by rank-and-file members.

It's that simple.

While the corp interface is possibly the most broken part of this game and has been since forever, 0.0 manufacturing is bad because the players have made it so.


yeah, because it was players who introduced the following (and other) mechanics:

- all or nothing for corp roles (all POS or no POS, all jobs or no jobs ...)
- limit of 7 hangar divisions and wallet divisions
- 1 outpost per system
- no viable combination of refining capability and production slots
- absolutely terrible corp management
- absolutely terrible pos management

see, totally player made problems
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#51 - 2012-11-17 05:29:40 UTC
I support rearranging the ores so as to effectively nerf highsec income. Drake is too popular = Nerf. Ancillary shield booster too popular = Nerf. Highsec too popular = Nerf.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#52 - 2012-11-17 05:32:25 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
yeah, because it was players who introduced the following (and other) mechanics:

- all or nothing for corp roles (all POS or no POS, all jobs or no jobs ...)
- limit of 7 hangar divisions and wallet divisions
- 1 outpost per system
- no viable combination of refining capability and production slots
- absolutely terrible corp management
- absolutely terrible pos management

see, totally player made problems

It was us, you see.

We're making EVE a terrible place for everyone. Even us.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-11-17 05:46:40 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:


This.

More Tritanium in null please.


Do null seccers still buy Passive Targeters to transport trit? Passive Targeters got their compression ratio nerfed, but they are still 100% trit.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#54 - 2012-11-17 05:47:33 UTC
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:


This.

More Tritanium in null please.


Do null seccers still buy Passive Targeters to transport trit? Passive Targeters got their compression ratio nerfed, but they are still 100% trit.

Nowadays it's 425mm Railgun I's I think.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#55 - 2012-11-17 06:09:33 UTC
You won't even find this principle in HS.

Dead end .8 space has more Dense Veld than most .5 space. It's relative to the stations and the number of gates. Find a dead end .4 with no station and you will see loads of Ore. Have fun getting it out.
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#56 - 2012-11-17 07:28:53 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:


yeah, because it was players who introduced the following (and other) mechanics:

- all or nothing for corp roles (all POS or no POS, all jobs or no jobs ...)
- limit of 7 hangar divisions and wallet divisions
- 1 outpost per system
- no viable combination of refining capability and production slots
- absolutely terrible corp management
- absolutely terrible pos management

see, totally player made problems
And I agree that corp management is a horrid interface. What does any of those problems have to do with game mechanics though? See you dislike the system that governs the mechanics, the mechanics themselves though work and are working as intended. As I said before, your lack of trust, lack of supply routes and lack of willingness to use null to it's full potential is the problem. Not the actual mechanics.

It's ok though, just keep blaming highsec, and your lack of trust, and your inability stop shooting things to actually setting up an empire. Because you want all the things that NPCs take care of in highsec but you want it to be your space and not do the work the NPCs do to make it like that.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#57 - 2012-11-17 07:45:05 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:


one of the problems of industry in 00 is the LACK of tritanium...

please do your homework before posting here




So....

Veldspar isn't in nullsec?
Ark is 37.5% trit
Crok is 25% trit
Ochre is 25% trit
Spod is 85% trit
Hem is 39.8% trit

There is plenty of trit in nullsec, just that miners naturally want the highest pay day for what they're mining rather than what is needed in the area.
Lolar55
Banana Toaster
#58 - 2012-11-17 08:38:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lolar55
Emma Royd wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:


one of the problems of industry in 00 is the LACK of tritanium...

please do your homework before posting here




So....

Veldspar isn't in nullsec?
Ark is 37.5% trit
Crok is 25% trit
Ochre is 25% trit
Spod is 85% trit
Hem is 39.8% trit

There is plenty of trit in nullsec, just that miners naturally want the highest pay day for what they're mining rather than what is needed in the area.




Its pretty simple, do the math if minin trit will make a ship cost you more in the long run just keep mining abc, if not there is enough veld in 0.0 so stop whining about spod.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#59 - 2012-11-17 08:52:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Lolar55 wrote:
Emma Royd wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:


one of the problems of industry in 00 is the LACK of tritanium...

please do your homework before posting here




So....

Veldspar isn't in nullsec?
Ark is 37.5% trit
Crok is 25% trit
Ochre is 25% trit
Spod is 85% trit
Hem is 39.8% trit

There is plenty of trit in nullsec, just that miners naturally want the highest pay day for what they're mining rather than what is needed in the area.




Its pretty simple, do the math if minin trit will make a ship cost you more in the long run just keep mining abc, if not there is enough veld in 0.0 so stop whining about spod.

Not as simple as you think. The volumes of those ores are absolutely enormous compared to the volumes of Veld.

I'm not even a miner and I know that to be a fact. Roll

Is there a better argument than this for tritanium being available in large quantities in null sec?

Did anybody consider adding insult to injury by adding in the refining percentages in null to this volume dilemma?

Come on people, this is Eve Online. We're the smart ones.

Edit: orginally said "than Tritanium." I meant "than Veldspar." Clearly I'm no miner. Cool

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Generals4
#60 - 2012-11-17 09:30:42 UTC
Devon Krah'tor wrote:
Simple idea worth considering: add higher quality ores, proportional to sec status (I'm looking specifically at lowsec as its underpopulated in terms of Indys atm.

for example Awesomesauce Veldspar +15%, Epic Veldspar +20% etc..
This would help to make it worth the while of mining in lowsec which presents many challenges to a miner, without offering a sufficient rewards.

The idea being to improve a miners efficiency to compete with, even exceed what is possible by AFK mining in hisec. Lets face it, miners are not going to mine somewhere that is dangerous for less profit. because thats stupid.


ok and optionally reduce the ore quality in hisec (this is all for balance, you'll get the exact same result if you buff everything but hisec, just with less crying.

so now we have a growing community of indys and miners in dangerous space (because its now actually worth it)

AFK mining is less profitable (good)

would be a step towards increasing the value of null ores, as the supply of low ends would increase.

discuss/flame away


While i like the idea some people already have pointed out the flaws. In my opinion the best thing to do would be giving Lowsec unique minerals. Let's say Nocxium, make it only appear in ores in lowsec. This means that regardless how much is mined in high, null and WH's miners will also be needed in lowsec. And if for some reason mining in lowsec appears to be the most difficult the price of nocxium would skyrocket making the effort needed to safely mine worth it.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _