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Proteus vs Astarte
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Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#21 - 2012-11-16 11:22:38 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
10% increased armor per level ship bonuses should be removed entirely.

They are imbalanced.


Great way to ensure it doesnt get used anymore.


Superior armor rep bonus, armor resitance bonus also available. These are more balanced.

Achieving post-battleship levels of EHP with a few basic faction modules it NOT.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#22 - 2012-11-16 11:48:00 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
10% increased armor per level ship bonuses should be removed entirely.

They are imbalanced.


Great way to ensure it doesnt get used anymore.


Superior armor rep bonus, armor resitance bonus also available. These are more balanced.

Achieving post-battleship levels of EHP with a few basic faction modules it NOT.


Going to have to second this one here. Battleship levels of raw armor points combined with 1/3 the sig, faster speed and MUCH MUCH better resistances mean you have a cruiser that is so significantly more survivable than a BS it's not even remotely amusing. Pretty sure a battleship should be tougher to kill than a cruiser What?
chris elliot
Treasury Department
Plug N Play
#23 - 2012-11-16 12:17:03 UTC
CFC whine is strong in this thread.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-11-16 16:56:09 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
What is the freaking problem?
To get a proteus with the said large tank you have to spend several billion ISK.
Stop jerking off over problems that are none.


Proteus having a 10% rep per level bonus compared to the astarte's 7.5% is one problem. Proteus having full t2 resistances compared to astarte's nerfed t2 resistances is another problem. Proteus having 3 rigs compared to Astarte's 2 is yet another problem.

The undeniable reality is that compared to field commands with the exception of the Sleipnir, t3 in hac mode are pretty much flat out better. Sure the Astarte has potential to do more dps, just as the Absolution compared to legion however these modest advantages to no make up for the massive shortcomings in comparison.

With the future buffs to come to the command class I'm sure the gap in power between t3 and commands will be reversed however this will not address the real issue which is t3 compared to hacs. The fact we are comparing a command ship instead of a hac to a t3 cruisers is an indication of problems to begin with. The only inevitable outcome I can see is an overall nerf to t3 combat capabilities along with modest buffs to HAC abilities. This of course should be combined with a very modest reduction in build cost of t3s, the added ability to change subsystems at a POS, and of course the Mandatory removal of sp loss when loosing a t3 ship.



I have no problem with T3's having a larger tank given the SP loss on destruction. No other mechanic in the game requires me to risk SP loss just to play (well yes if I forget to update my clone but not really the same thing). There is also no mechanic to get back my lost SP faster. I can buy a GTC and sell the plex for isk if I come up short. But SP just has to be retrained again. at an average of 5 days every time I lose a T3, it adds up.

Not sure what you mean by mandatory SP loss, except if you are referencing pilots ejecting before the ship dies. This mechanic dies with retribution.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-11-16 18:54:08 UTC
chris elliot wrote:
Why on earth would you want to dual 1600 a proteus? What are you attempting to do? Be outrun by a moon?



Because EFT numbers are so awesome but often finish in wreck form with expensive goodies in.

Without boosters, implants, OGB and/or WH bonus, when you get 70K EHP out of some gank proteus you're already close/above to the billion isk ship, slow as a brick and can barely shoot stuff at the distance the bonus point has, non the less the range/tracking bonus on the hybrid armature sub is fantastic and really helps those still bad med blasters actually work more or less properly but forget about rails.

The OMGPROTFOKALL is a myth. Sure can deal huge amounts of punishment and take as much but, T2 fit it's not that uber as many claim, it's just a slow brick with awesome eft numbers, nothing else. Cool for low/null sec carebears ganking, or in fleets for heavy tackle if you can't fly anything else.
Those are awesome to kill, neut them and get the crap out of them, loot awesome goodies.

brb
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-11-16 21:41:30 UTC
t3 cruisers don't need to be nerfed. T2 cruisers need a buff/rebalance. And they will. As i'm sure t3 cruisers will too.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#27 - 2012-11-16 23:34:00 UTC
Casirio wrote:
t3 cruisers don't need to be nerfed. T2 cruisers need a buff/rebalance. And they will. As i'm sure t3 cruisers will too.


I very very seriously doubt that t3s in hac mode will be receiving any significant buffs.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#28 - 2012-11-17 00:15:58 UTC
Casirio wrote:
t3 cruisers don't need to be nerfed. T2 cruisers need a buff/rebalance. And they will. As i'm sure t3 cruisers will too.

Because what we really need is more powercreep...
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#29 - 2012-11-17 00:47:13 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Casirio wrote:
t3 cruisers don't need to be nerfed. T2 cruisers need a buff/rebalance. And they will. As i'm sure t3 cruisers will too.

Because what we really need is more powercreep...


Ahh, quite refreshing... One of the few sharp enough to figure out that buffing to the level of overpowered ships only creates more issues than it solves.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-11-17 04:45:44 UTC
Fist you cant really compare those two, proteus is twice the price and three times as scary! Secondly for pure active tanking gank fits the astarte is pretty much as good as the proteus (seriosly who buffer fits them). The only problem with the astarte is the training time which is to high compared to a tech3 cruiser!

Also for the lolz., if you properly buffer fit a proteus you end up with 1.3 million ehp not measly 220k!
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#31 - 2012-11-17 07:07:54 UTC
Well at lest they are proposing better balance between T2 and T3 in the field of boosting which was the bigger problem.
Hope fully as they come around to balancing the T2 cruisers they will move some numbers around on the T3.
CCP has already stated that there intent with T3's was versatility not supremacy , now only time will tell.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#32 - 2012-11-17 08:16:06 UTC
Astarte is a T2 Brutix, not a T4 Proteus.

.
chris elliot
Treasury Department
Plug N Play
#33 - 2012-11-17 13:55:06 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:

CCP has already stated that there intent with T3's was versatility not supremacy , now only time will tell.


Has anyone stopped to think that maybe the versatility is what gives them supremacy?

Or did everyone just start mashing the "*****" button right away?
Protector X
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-11-17 22:51:57 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
What is the freaking problem?
To get a proteus with the said large tank you have to spend several billion ISK.
Stop jerking off over problems that are none.


All my stats were based off basic T2 fits, not billions, Speak what ya know.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-11-17 22:57:31 UTC
Protector X wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
What is the freaking problem?
To get a proteus with the said large tank you have to spend several billion ISK.
Stop jerking off over problems that are none.


All my stats were based off basic T2 fits, not billions, Speak what ya know.


Well maybe you should have posted full fittings, so people would know. As I have been telling my wife for years I'm not a mind reader.
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