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Goons - two years on the tech moons - how you guys feel about that, question about game future

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Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#261 - 2012-11-16 20:55:49 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Shizuken wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Shizuken wrote:
Goon away, if that suits you. There is plenty of non-goon space for me.

Don't worry, CCP loves highsec a lot as well.


As they should. If the entire game was like null EvE would cease attracting new players and it would die as vets move on or die off. At some point even the goons will reach a ceiling on their dominance. You will have to grow your employee base the more space you capture, it is simple logistics. When the growth rates of territory and employment diverge you will either have so much empty space that squatters will start to occupy it, or everyone in null will be a goon. If the former happens you will start to lose territory. If the latter happens you open yourself up to graft and corruption. The larger the alliance wallet gets the more tempting it is for someone to steal from it.

You pretend that Goons look to pubbies as a source to replenish their ranks.

This is almost universally untrue, making a mockery of the rest of your entire post.

Only pubbie alliances and corps would struggle to recruit "noobs" from high-sec.

Goons would go on getting the bulk of their new hires the old-fashioned way: Friends on Somethingawful.com who were interested in some good-old-fashioned spaceship fights.


I never said they would turn only to highsec noobs. But, it is endemic to every organization that the larger it gets the more difficult it is to maintain internal security. This is the case, to a greater or less extent, no matter from where your recruits come.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#262 - 2012-11-16 20:56:42 UTC
Yeah, cause it's not like Goons have ever had a director steal from them and disband the alliance before.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#263 - 2012-11-16 21:02:09 UTC
So this thread is basically a rant about Goons taking all the ISK we greedy masses shove down their throats and then spending it?

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#264 - 2012-11-16 21:11:29 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Shizuken wrote:
As they should. If the entire game was like null EvE would cease attracting new players and it would die as vets move on or die off. At some point even the goons will reach a ceiling on their dominance. You will have to grow your employee base the more space you capture, it is simple logistics. When the growth rates of territory and employment diverge you will either have so much empty space that squatters will start to occupy it, or everyone in null will be a goon. If the former happens you will start to lose territory. If the latter happens you open yourself up to graft and corruption. The larger the alliance wallet gets the more tempting it is for someone to steal from it.


Okay since you claim to know how EVE works, what attracts new players please explain this to us all?


It is not just what attracts new players, it is why they stay. Getting routinely and mercilessly pounded to dust from all comers is not appealing to the majority of people. Some may stick through it, but it is frustrating to have gameplay goals that are never realized due to constant resets of ones progress.

The best design philosophy for maximum subscribership is a place where anything is possible in the long term, but where the initial experience is favorable and rewarding. Running level one missions with 200k SP and barely any money while allowing hostile campers to repeatedly kill noobs is not an effective strategy to keep them playing, neither is constant hand holding.

The proper fix to the current complained about balance between high, low, and null sec is not to make high less safe. The proper tactic is to make the possibilities in null greater and have more depth.

But please, now tell me how rampant antisocial behavior encourages people to stick around.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#265 - 2012-11-16 21:13:18 UTC
I've no idea why you're talking about making hisec less safe.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#266 - 2012-11-16 21:13:25 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
I never said they would turn only to highsec noobs. But, it is endemic to every organization that the larger it gets the more difficult it is to maintain internal security. This is the case, to a greater or less extent, no matter from where your recruits come.

Yes, thus, the ~security~ deposit. It maintains security.
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yeah, cause it's not like Goons have ever had a director steal from them and disband the alliance before.

Yes, it was really hilarious, as I understand it.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#267 - 2012-11-16 21:13:46 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Shizuken wrote:
As they should. If the entire game was like null EvE would cease attracting new players and it would die as vets move on or die off. At some point even the goons will reach a ceiling on their dominance. You will have to grow your employee base the more space you capture, it is simple logistics. When the growth rates of territory and employment diverge you will either have so much empty space that squatters will start to occupy it, or everyone in null will be a goon. If the former happens you will start to lose territory. If the latter happens you open yourself up to graft and corruption. The larger the alliance wallet gets the more tempting it is for someone to steal from it.


Okay since you claim to know how EVE works, what attracts new players please explain this to us all?


It is not just what attracts new players, it is why they stay. Getting routinely and mercilessly pounded to dust from all comers is not appealing to the majority of people. Some may stick through it, but it is frustrating to have gameplay goals that are never realized due to constant resets of ones progress.

The best design philosophy for maximum subscribership is a place where anything is possible in the long term, but where the initial experience is favorable and rewarding. Running level one missions with 200k SP and barely any money while allowing hostile campers to repeatedly kill noobs is not an effective strategy to keep them playing, neither is constant hand holding.

The proper fix to the current complained about balance between high, low, and null sec is not to make high less safe. The proper tactic is to make the possibilities in null greater and have more depth.

But please, now tell me how rampant antisocial behavior encourages people to stick around.

Well I guess it's a good thing then that there are rules against harassing new players.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#268 - 2012-11-16 21:14:55 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
So this thread is basically a rant about Goons taking all the ISK we greedy masses shove down their throats and then spending it?

Greedily shoving things down people''s throats <3

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#269 - 2012-11-16 21:17:07 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
So this thread is basically a rant about Goons taking all the ISK we greedy masses shove down their throats and then spending it?

No we also had Issler Dainze, esteemed member of the CSM, come in here claiming she doesn't understand why CCP hadn't done anything to curb the Tech bottleneck and calling us all names.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#270 - 2012-11-16 21:17:09 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
So this thread is basically a rant about Goons taking all the ISK we greedy masses shove down their throats and then spending it?


Confirmed. Greed and jealousy seem to have occupied the forums. But nobody tries to take what they want ingame Sad

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
Melvin Coulter
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#271 - 2012-11-16 21:21:12 UTC
Bah this is old am going back to playing with my rocks..

Move along!
Shylari Avada
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#272 - 2012-11-16 21:24:48 UTC
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
Confirmed. Greed and jealousy seem to have occupied the forums. But nobody tries to take what they want ingame Sad


Yeah, they might lose a ship or something and actually experience some form of 'excitement' in their online spaceship simulator.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#273 - 2012-11-16 21:35:34 UTC
Shylari Avada wrote:
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
Confirmed. Greed and jealousy seem to have occupied the forums. But nobody tries to take what they want ingame Sad

Yeah, they might lose a ship or something and actually experience some form of 'excitement' in their online spaceship simulator.

We'll shove high explosive ammunition down their greedy structure hitpoints.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#274 - 2012-11-16 21:40:55 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Shizuken wrote:
:words:


So you refuse to answer the question because you do not know how EVE works or what attracts new players.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#275 - 2012-11-16 22:03:27 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Shizuken wrote:
:words:

So you refuse to answer the question because you do not know how EVE works or what attracts new players.

You don't sound surprised.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#276 - 2012-11-16 22:20:47 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Shizuken wrote:
:words:


So you refuse to answer the question because you do not know how EVE works or what attracts new players.


What did I miss? I laid out several guiding principals that would attract new players, or at least I thought. What is it exactly that you would also like a response to. I would gladly elaborate on my earlier statements.

Question
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#277 - 2012-11-16 22:21:11 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
You're all just a bunch of whiners.... Shocked

So I don't see the problem here, all you have to do is make your own alliance, recruit 30K members, find a way to fund it, spend years to learn how to fight, build a huge fleet of warships and then take all the moons yourself!! It only took the goons about 6 years to get where they are now, assuming they stop growing and sit around waiting for you soon you can win Eve.

I anxiously await my new overlords in 2018!

Not speaking for the CSM but I would have expected something to have happened by now to address isk printing machines like tech moons.

Issler

Then you should probably do something about it with your CSM tag besides calling other players whiners.

Which I'm reporting, by the way. You can't call people names on these forums, Issler.



Sorry, I misspelled, I mean winners!!! Big smile
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#278 - 2012-11-16 22:22:13 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Not speaking for the CSM but I would have expected something to have happened by now to address isk printing machines like tech moons.

It's almost as if CCP haven't implemented alchemy which impacts tech prices vOv


Bandaid, does NOT fix the problem, just makes it different.

Issler
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#279 - 2012-11-16 22:23:34 UTC
Imports Plus wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Not speaking for the CSM but I would have expected something to have happened by now to address isk printing machines like tech moons.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73051

CCP Fozzie wrote:
So we are going to kick Technetium in the balls.


Log in much?


Not enough to really fix the problem.

Issler
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#280 - 2012-11-16 22:24:08 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Not speaking for the CSM but I would have expected something to have happened by now to address isk printing machines like tech moons.

It's almost as if CCP haven't implemented alchemy which impacts tech prices vOv

Bandaid, does NOT fix the problem, just makes it different.

So what's the real fix, then, since setting tech up to go below 40k/unit apparently isn't enough?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat