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[Winter] Combat Cruisers

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Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#921 - 2012-11-15 11:33:46 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
I second the Scorch thing, Scorch is a world of difference for Amarr, it allows their short range weapons to reach out very far while maintaining good dps (which is another reason why LR weapons suck). This makes Amarr hard to train into since you need t2 weapons (which also makes fitting tight as downgrading to meta4 is not an option) and also as said, makes them very reliant on Scorch, Amarr needs more options.

And what is the solution ?

Blasters have the close range place ; AC have the versatile place (with falloff, they have good damage at short range, and soso at longer range) ; pulse are left with medium range only.

If medium range is not viable, then the problem is here. You cannot make pulse better than blasters or AC at their optimal range, or they would be obsoleted.

I already said it, but IMO, the problem with Amarr is armor tank, nothing else.
Alara IonStorm
#922 - 2012-11-15 11:46:11 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:

I second the Scorch thing, Scorch is a world of difference for Amarr, it allows their short range weapons to reach out very far while maintaining good dps (which is another reason why LR weapons suck). This makes Amarr hard to train into since you need t2 weapons (which also makes fitting tight as downgrading to meta4 is not an option) and also as said, makes them very reliant on Scorch, Amarr needs more options.

What they really ought to do is rebalance all T1 Ammo.

There are so many useless types and short range weapons only make use of -50% ammo. They should look into Ammo that increases /decreases falloff as well as opt and they look into effective Dmg in regards to range to make all ammo types useful.

Right now there are like 10 different ammo's per gun and only like 2-3 that are useful. They all should with any weapon.
FFKefka
#923 - 2012-11-15 15:32:34 UTC  |  Edited by: FFKefka
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Vexor:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+1), 4 turrets
Fittings: 800 PWG (+125), 300 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(-73) / 2000(+515) / 2000(+515)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+200) / 482.5s(+36.25s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 205(+36) / 0.53(-0.04) / 11310000 (+1000000) / 5.6s (+0.1)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 125 (+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km / 280(+4) / 6(+1)
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 145 (-5)
Cargo capacity: 480


First time posting on the forum so hello.

I personally like where this is going, but with all the changes that have been made to other ships (and some personal experience with this hull) I thought I would offer some suggestions.

While I do enjoy bait mining with my vexor, With the changes to mining ships I would like to see the mining yield bonus replaced with either a drone tracking bonus, drone speed bonus, or perhaps take a note from the guardian vexor and have +1 extra Drone controlled per level. I believe a ship that is pushed into a "Combat line" would be a disgrace to force a mining bonus on, plus the idea of a tracking boost would be more viable on the vexor than the tristan given that the vexor can use all three sizes of drones. The +1 drone control could be a great fun idea, but I bet there would be complaints of it being OP.

I would prefer if the hybrid bonus applied to small guns as well as mediums similar to the Caracal. Personally I go tankier in favor of small guns since the vexor doesn't have enough power grid to support a 1600 plate, MWD (or AB) and medium sized guns even with the changes proposed. Plus, the tracking speed of the small guns are much more worth it in my opinion; especially when getting enemy drones off me. Right now I feel medium gun bonus is pretty useless unless I am in a fleet of fast gankers or in a sniping role with rails and sentry drones. There is a reason you often see these hulls with lasers or autocannons.

Perhaps get rid of the gun bonus all together in favor for the +1 drone control per level bonus per level?

Thank you.

Death is the true way of life. For if there is no death, there is no life.

Remind your vegetarian friends that think eating meat is murder; eating plants kills them too. I'm not obsessed with death, it is obsessed with me.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#924 - 2012-11-15 16:20:33 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

Range is really not the issue with lasers.. at 20km pulses outdps any other short range weapon. But sadly that really doesn't make up for all the other issues pulses have.

Amarr is a race that runs 100% on Scorch Crystals. Blasters work okay with just Antimatter, Auto's don't need Barrage, SR Missiles do not need T2 Ammo. Yes those weapons can be made better with T2 but they are not in dire straights without it.

Take away Amarr's Scorch is like breaking the races kneecaps with a tire iron. Amarr should be able to stand well with and without Scorch.


I think the problem is that Scorch is overpowered and really scews the perception on amarr ships

There are a LOT of ships that are only really used because of scorch (Zealot)

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#925 - 2012-11-15 16:31:48 UTC
FFKefka wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Vexor:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+1), 4 turrets
Fittings: 800 PWG (+125), 300 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(-73) / 2000(+515) / 2000(+515)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+200) / 482.5s(+36.25s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 205(+36) / 0.53(-0.04) / 11310000 (+1000000) / 5.6s (+0.1)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 125 (+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km / 280(+4) / 6(+1)
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 145 (-5)
Cargo capacity: 480


First time posting on the forum so hello.

I personally like where this is going, but with all the changes that have been made to other ships (and some personal experience with this hull) I thought I would offer some suggestions.

While I do enjoy bait mining with my vexor, With the changes to mining ships I would like to see the mining yield bonus replaced with either a drone tracking bonus, drone speed bonus, or perhaps take a note from the guardian vexor and have +1 extra Drone controlled per level. I believe a ship that is pushed into a "Combat line" would be a disgrace to force a mining bonus on, plus the idea of a tracking boost would be more viable on the vexor than the tristan given that the vexor can use all three sizes of drones. The +1 drone control could be a great fun idea, but I bet there would be complaints of it being OP.

I would prefer if the hybrid bonus applied to small guns as well as mediums similar to the Caracal. Personally I go tankier in favor of small guns since the vexor doesn't have enough power grid to support a 1600 plate, MWD (or AB) and medium sized guns even with the changes proposed. Plus, the tracking speed of the small guns are much more worth it in my opinion; especially when getting enemy drones off me. Right now I feel medium gun bonus is pretty useless unless I am in a fleet of fast gankers or in a sniping role with rails and sentry drones. There is a reason you often see these hulls with lasers or autocannons.

Perhaps get rid of the gun bonus all together in favor for the +1 drone control per level bonus per level?

Thank you.

Your letter weren't adressed correctly. The person yuo are looking for is Santa Claus ; it's a bit farther in the north.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#926 - 2012-11-15 21:56:38 UTC
I will start this off with a little lore:
Red Moon Rising Expansion
December 2005
EW Drones, Logistic Drones, and Sentry Drones were introduced.
Max drone control was 15, (+5 from Drones, +5 from Drone Interfacing, and +5 form the ship [Vexor] in this thread)
Over the next few years T2 varations of drones were introduces for all drones, with the exception of EW drones and Fighter/Bombers
Fast fowrad to December 2007,
Trinity Expansion
Drone Bandwith was introduced and the max drone control for sub capital ships was reduced 5 drones per ship, skills and ships were modified to compensate for the loss of 10 drones Drones +1 Drones/level Drone Interfacing +20% Drone Damage and Mining Yeald/level Ship Bonuses +10% Drone Damage and HP/level

Now the modifications were effective in keeping the damage the same as before, but nothing else for example you were able to launch 15 medium armor maintance drone II from the vexor, @28 HP/drone and a cycle time of 5s you could rep 105HP/s. now you can only rep 35HP/s. This is due to the Drone Interfacing skill only boosting Drone Damage and not the total effectiveness of drones, the same if true for all non combat drones.

As for the ability to destroy drones, when 15 drones were able to be controled by the vexor, using hammerhead II, the total HP of all drones was (before resistances) 21225HP. The reduction of drone control did not take this into consideration either, the hull grants +10% HP/level, but that leaves the drones with a total HP of 10615.5HP, merely half of the amount of HP that could be fielded before.

Drone Interfacing should add +20%/level to the total effectiveness of drones, HP, Damage, Mining Yeald, Web amount.
The Hull bonus should do the same except 10%/level

This would give drone ships the versitality that they use to have before they were reduced down to 5 drones.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#927 - 2012-11-16 15:17:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:

I second the Scorch thing, Scorch is a world of difference for Amarr, it allows their short range weapons to reach out very far while maintaining good dps (which is another reason why LR weapons suck). This makes Amarr hard to train into since you need t2 weapons (which also makes fitting tight as downgrading to meta4 is not an option) and also as said, makes them very reliant on Scorch, Amarr needs more options.

What they really ought to do is rebalance all T1 Ammo.

There are so many useless types and short range weapons only make use of -50% ammo. They should look into Ammo that increases /decreases falloff as well as opt and they look into effective Dmg in regards to range to make all ammo types useful.

Right now there are like 10 different ammo's per gun and only like 2-3 that are useful. They all should with any weapon.


Yes looking at T1 ammo compared to T2 the main thing that stands out is the dps is so much lower on any that boost range at all and on top of that none of them add to falloff specifically like barrage they only add to range and as anyone who knows adding optimal range to autos is a waste of time which is why there is such a reliance on barrage.
the problem with this is noobs can't really use ships like the stabber that rely on falloff so heavily.
This is another reason people skip to bc's instead of using cruisers because the skill set is virtually the same to be able to use them effectively.
its perhaps less of an issue for combat cruisers as faction high damage ammo isn't too bad and give a tracking boost useful for brawling.
But attack cruisers will end up being a conscious choice over using a bc and there only upgrade path will be HACS if they end up being proper and useful T2 variants of attack cruisers.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#928 - 2012-11-16 16:32:41 UTC
If my memory serves correctly, after the winter expansion training will be:

Faction -Frigate > Destroyer > Cruiser > BC > BS >Caps
...................I...........................\....../
...................\> AF.....................HAC


Live edit: pfffa, found it.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63522/1/2013shipbalancing.jpg

Hopefully that, and the changes to cruisers will give more reasons to fly them.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#929 - 2012-11-20 14:33:23 UTC
The real savior of crusiers will be battlecruisers (specifically tier 2) being balanced a little weaker than currently while cruisers got a new advantage of speed...
Wivabel
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#930 - 2012-11-21 13:36:58 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will start this off with a little lore:
Red Moon Rising Expansion
December 2005
EW Drones, Logistic Drones, and Sentry Drones were introduced.
Max drone control was 15, (+5 from Drones, +5 from Drone Interfacing, and +5 form the ship [Vexor] in this thread)
Over the next few years T2 varations of drones were introduces for all drones, with the exception of EW drones and Fighter/Bombers
Fast fowrad to December 2007,
Trinity Expansion
Drone Bandwith was introduced and the max drone control for sub capital ships was reduced 5 drones per ship, skills and ships were modified to compensate for the loss of 10 drones Drones +1 Drones/level Drone Interfacing +20% Drone Damage and Mining Yeald/level Ship Bonuses +10% Drone Damage and HP/level

Now the modifications were effective in keeping the damage the same as before, but nothing else for example you were able to launch 15 medium armor maintance drone II from the vexor, @28 HP/drone and a cycle time of 5s you could rep 105HP/s. now you can only rep 35HP/s. This is due to the Drone Interfacing skill only boosting Drone Damage and not the total effectiveness of drones, the same if true for all non combat drones.

As for the ability to destroy drones, when 15 drones were able to be controled by the vexor, using hammerhead II, the total HP of all drones was (before resistances) 21225HP. The reduction of drone control did not take this into consideration either, the hull grants +10% HP/level, but that leaves the drones with a total HP of 10615.5HP, merely half of the amount of HP that could be fielded before.

Drone Interfacing should add +20%/level to the total effectiveness of drones, HP, Damage, Mining Yeald, Web amount.
The Hull bonus should do the same except 10%/level

This would give drone ships the versitality that they use to have before they were reduced down to 5 drones.


This is good stuff. Fozzie please think about this. Sense has been made for once on these forums.

I am not sure if I am going to log in anymore.......
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#931 - 2012-11-21 14:05:03 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

Range is really not the issue with lasers.. at 20km pulses outdps any other short range weapon. But sadly that really doesn't make up for all the other issues pulses have.

Amarr is a race that runs 100% on Scorch Crystals. Blasters work okay with just Antimatter, Auto's don't need Barrage, SR Missiles do not need T2 Ammo. Yes those weapons can be made better with T2 but they are not in dire straights without it.

Take away Amarr's Scorch is like breaking the races kneecaps with a tire iron. Amarr should be able to stand well with and without Scorch.


I think the problem is that Scorch is overpowered and really scews the perception on amarr ships

There are a LOT of ships that are only really used because of scorch (Zealot)


If Scorch didn't exist, Amarr would be severely underpowered.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#932 - 2012-11-21 14:43:19 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
The real savior of crusiers will be battlecruisers (specifically tier 2) being balanced a little weaker than currently while cruisers got a new advantage of speed...


The increase in speed and honestly general performance of most cruisers is going to make them exceedingly popular with those looking to spend minimal isk on pvp. I can see t1 cruiser fleets comprised of t1 combat/attack, support, and ewar cruisers being extremely effective at a very minimal cost. I'd expect the entire cost of a 10 man fleet of these ships to be under 250m, not factoring insurance payouts of course.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#933 - 2012-11-21 15:55:37 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

Range is really not the issue with lasers.. at 20km pulses outdps any other short range weapon. But sadly that really doesn't make up for all the other issues pulses have.

Amarr is a race that runs 100% on Scorch Crystals. Blasters work okay with just Antimatter, Auto's don't need Barrage, SR Missiles do not need T2 Ammo. Yes those weapons can be made better with T2 but they are not in dire straights without it.

Take away Amarr's Scorch is like breaking the races kneecaps with a tire iron. Amarr should be able to stand well with and without Scorch.


I think the problem is that Scorch is overpowered and really scews the perception on amarr ships

There are a LOT of ships that are only really used because of scorch (Zealot)


If Scorch didn't exist, Amarr would be severely underpowered.


This is part of the problem. With the other weapon systems having previous upgrades / buffs, non bonused lasers are no longer as good as they were in comparison, and many Amarr ships still have a cap bonus just to use it instead of another weapon bonus. Add on top of it how generally poor they are without Scorch crystals and massive cap demand / vulnerability, and you get a weapon group that needs reworking.
I love my lasers, but I would love to be effective in more than 2 colors.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#934 - 2012-11-21 16:05:25 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

Range is really not the issue with lasers.. at 20km pulses outdps any other short range weapon. But sadly that really doesn't make up for all the other issues pulses have.

Amarr is a race that runs 100% on Scorch Crystals. Blasters work okay with just Antimatter, Auto's don't need Barrage, SR Missiles do not need T2 Ammo. Yes those weapons can be made better with T2 but they are not in dire straights without it.

Take away Amarr's Scorch is like breaking the races kneecaps with a tire iron. Amarr should be able to stand well with and without Scorch.


I think the problem is that Scorch is overpowered and really scews the perception on amarr ships

There are a LOT of ships that are only really used because of scorch (Zealot)


If Scorch didn't exist, Amarr would be severely underpowered.


This is part of the problem. With the other weapon systems having previous upgrades / buffs, non bonused lasers are no longer as good as they were in comparison, and many Amarr ships still have a cap bonus just to use it instead of another weapon bonus. Add on top of it how generally poor they are without Scorch crystals and massive cap demand / vulnerability, and you get a weapon group that needs reworking.
I love my lasers, but I would love to be effective in more than 2 colors.

I know this willl be just a blah fix, but it coulld/would work to just give all amarr ships a role bonus of 50% reduction of capacitor needs for laser weapons

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Wivabel
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#935 - 2012-11-21 17:10:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Wivabel
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
[quote=Takeshi Yamato][quote=Garviel Tarrant][quote=Alara

This is part of the problem. With the other weapon systems having previous upgrades / buffs, non bonused lasers are no longer as good as they were in comparison, and many Amarr ships still have a cap bonus just to use it instead of another weapon bonus. Add on top of it how generally poor they are without Scorch crystals and massive cap demand / vulnerability, and you get a weapon group that needs reworking.

I love my lasers, but I would love to be effective in more than 2 colors.

I know this willl be just a blah fix, but it coulld/would work to just give all amarr ships a role bonus of 50% reduction of capacitor needs for laser weapons


Nah just change the cap use bonus to a cap recharge speed bonus. Then it makes the entire ship better with cap rather than just weapon use. This would make amarr ships much more cap stable in general. It changes the bonus from a bonus that allows my ship to work to a bonus that makes my ship different/better at something over other ships.

As far as ammo goes all race short range weapons tend to only use 3 primary ammo types

min: barrage hail faction emp (You may see more here but hail/barrage do explosive/kinetic damage already so emp is the logical faction ammo to carry.
gal: null void faction anti
Amarr: scorch conflag multi
caldari Null void anti
Missiles: bleh

LR guns tend to use more of the amarr/gal ammo types to great effect IE faction plutonium or thorium for gallente.

However LR faction ammo is all but useless on most ships.

I suppose we could just fix armor tanking. Figured I would throw that in simply because talking about overpowered and not gimped amarr/gal/min armor tanked ships is awesome oh wait armor makes me slow. Being slow sucks, Armor sucks. Atleast with scorch I can still hit kiters in LP range. Oh wait they are kiting me in Loki bonused LP range ...... I think I just won eve....wait......nope.

Wivabel

I am not sure if I am going to log in anymore.......
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#936 - 2012-11-21 20:53:01 UTC  |  Edited by: The VC's
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
You cannot ask your ship to have such resilience AND have comparable other stats (speed/dps/cap)


No, you can't. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for ehp and one of those other stats however.

Ehp and speed......err
Ehp and dps OR cap, yes.

Gallente and minmatar ships fly a different sort of fight so it's difficult to make direct comparisons.. Their stat profile is a lot more workable.

The way I see it with the Maller,

Slow speed is balanced by good ehp.
Poor tracking is balanced by good range.
Cap use is balanced by...............?

I wouldn't mind if it did great dps, but it doesn't. Dps is ok but not super. And bear in mind that that dps is hard to get down. Those EFT figures are potential dps. Comparatively blasters, missiles and auto cannons are fire and forget. During the fight, getting steady damage on target requires little thought. In a Maller, getting steady damage on target Is 90% of the fight. You just have to facetank the incoming dps to get your shots lined up.

As to load outs, you could fit a few things (metastasis rigs are handy)but lets face it, there will generally be one way the Maller will be fit and that is trimarks, cap booster, web, 1600mm plate, suitcase and a variation between heatsinks and resist mods.
Without utility high options it'll just be a bit boring and unremarkable.

And with further testing I can say that the 3 drones only value is a slight dps bump. Adding 2 more is only going to increase potential dps by 40 or so. It's not much to ask considering the ships weaknesses. Neuts will ruin your day.

I honestly believe that a Maller with a utility high, +10 damage bonus AND 5 drones would still be the fourth most popular combat cruiser.
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#937 - 2012-11-21 21:54:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Sheynan
The key to the new Maller's cookie cutter fit will be discharge rigs. You know, these odd rigs that decrease cap consumption that no one uses at the moment because almost every Amarr ship has a cap consumption bonus.

You can easily fit 1-3 of those instead of trimarks and still field a massive (+15k ehp) tank advantage in your Maller. And they will allow you to fit full tackle instead of a cap booster and thus alleviate most of your speed and tracking concerns.
Alara IonStorm
#938 - 2012-11-21 22:03:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Sheynan wrote:

You can easily fit 1-3 of those instead of trimarks and still field a massive (+15k ehp) tank advantage in your Maller.

You realize that every other armor ship fits about 35k-40k EHP average and 15k EHP is not massive but terrible to a level where you actually have to put effort into making a fit that bad to get such a low tank.

Edit: Nevermind. I just found this.

Sheynan wrote:
[Maller, armor heavy pulse]
Damage Control II
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

Medium Energy Discharge Elutriation I
Medium Energy Discharge Elutriation I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Hobgoblin II x3

7 minutes without MWD, still 10k more tank than other cruisers, you could also switch to focused mediums with 1600mm plate giving you 15k (!) extra ehp and cap stability for slightly decreased damage.

Stop whining about the Maller Roll


God Damn that is a terrible Maller and it needs a CPU Implant to be terrible. I can pull an Omen with more DPS, speed, Cap Life and EHP then that fit and the Omen is the flimsy one.

That Maller is painful to look at, somebody get it a shotgun.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#939 - 2012-11-21 23:10:51 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Sheynan wrote:

You can easily fit 1-3 of those instead of trimarks and still field a massive (+15k ehp) tank advantage in your Maller.

You realize that every other armor ship fits about 35k-40k EHP average and 15k EHP is not massive but terrible to a level where you actually have to put effort into making a fit that bad to get such a low tank.

He was talking about tank *advantage*. Which mean that compared to a regular cruiser, the maller will still have 15k MORE ehp than a regular cruiser without any tank rig. Well, that's a figure in fact, but anyway.

He is not far from the truth in fact. To achieve a 35k-40kehp tank, regular ship need 4 low slots and 3 rigs. To achieve the same, the Maller only need 4 low slots, saving 3 rigs for whatever else he may need (and avoiding the lol drawback of armor rigs).

On top of this, pulse laser range advantage is pretty meaningful : they achieve more range than any other weapon of their class without any range module.

And finaly, the mediocre dps legend : heavy pulse laser do 12% less dps than heavy ion blaster.

Now, indeed they eat a lot of cap, though, if you start by avoiding the third heatsink, you will have less cap problems. You can still use a collision accelerator rig to increase them without hampering your cap.

And remember : you have the most low slots : if your ennemy have more dps, he have less tank, a lot less. If he have same tank, he have less dps or less range (a lot less range) and often both.
Alara IonStorm
#940 - 2012-11-21 23:43:54 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

He is not far from the truth in fact. To achieve a 35k-40kehp tank, regular ship need 4 low slots and 3 rigs. To achieve the same, the Maller only need 4 low slots, saving 3 rigs for whatever else he may need (and avoiding the lol drawback of armor rigs).

On top of this, pulse laser range advantage is pretty meaningful : they achieve more range than any other weapon of their class without any range module.

And finaly, the mediocre dps legend : heavy pulse laser do 12% less dps than heavy ion blaster.

Now, indeed they eat a lot of cap, though, if you start by avoiding the third heatsink, you will have less cap problems. You can still use a collision accelerator rig to increase them without hampering your cap.

And remember : you have the most low slots : if your ennemy have more dps, he have less tank, a lot less. If he have same tank, he have less dps or less range (a lot less range) and often both.

No.

* His fit with 2 Energy Discharge Rigs still leaves him Cap vulnerable firing his guns alone. God forbid any Neut hits you or you have to run your MWD which isn't out of the question as an incredibly slow brawler fit. All that to get an average tank.
* Range is okay but you move so slow good luck getting tackle and if you do range not such a big deal.
* The tank can be good if you try to fit a good tank unlike the 34k EHP you saw him put on above but DPS is mediocre, you cap out if Neuted at all almost immediately and you have poor tracking.

New Maller sucks as a Web Scram / Brawler, it is okay in a gang with a cap boost but moves at Battlecruiser slow speed.