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Amazingness of Stealth Bombers after Retribution? (and torps in general)
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Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#21 - 2012-11-15 22:19:57 UTC
*chuckle* He is trying to say SB's are not very good out of cloak. Too soft, too easy to kill. In particular in small gang scenarios where there tends to be a lot of small to mid sized very fast boats, any number of which may have long range sniping set ups or drones. ;)

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
stoicfaux
#22 - 2012-11-16 04:15:06 UTC
Eridanii wrote:

Except Rage's have a 650m explosion radius... Meaning they are worthless except against battleships that are being painted. Even with these new changes, they will only be down in the realm of 260+. Also, it's very hard to fit T2 launchers on bombers. I think arbys are most popular.


774m explosion radius (19% increase) and a 5.6% bump in damage. GMP V brings the explosion radius down to 600m.

Check the google docs spreadsheet in https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029&find=unread


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#23 - 2012-11-16 04:28:38 UTC
Yeah, true. They have no tank at all so I guess they can only be useful in certain fights.

Oh god.
Eridanii
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-11-16 09:30:04 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Eridanii wrote:

Except Rage's have a 650m explosion radius... Meaning they are worthless except against battleships that are being painted. Even with these new changes, they will only be down in the realm of 260+. Also, it's very hard to fit T2 launchers on bombers. I think arbys are most popular.


774m explosion radius (19% increase) and a 5.6% bump in damage. GMP V brings the explosion radius down to 600m.

Check the google docs spreadsheet in https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029&find=unread


I forgot they were changing the T2 missiles as well. Makes Rages even worse for a bomber. But most people don't look into the details, they just try to get as big a number as EFT will give them...
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-11-16 15:33:28 UTC
Eridanii wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Eridanii wrote:

Except Rage's have a 650m explosion radius... Meaning they are worthless except against battleships that are being painted. Even with these new changes, they will only be down in the realm of 260+. Also, it's very hard to fit T2 launchers on bombers. I think arbys are most popular.


774m explosion radius (19% increase) and a 5.6% bump in damage. GMP V brings the explosion radius down to 600m.

Check the google docs spreadsheet in https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029&find=unread


I forgot they were changing the T2 missiles as well. Makes Rages even worse for a bomber. But most people don't look into the details


If you had looked at the details, you'd have realised that an explosion radius of 600 m (actually it's 580.5 m with GMP V) is better than one of 650 m... Straight
Eridanii
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-11-16 21:42:29 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Eridanii wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Eridanii wrote:

Except Rage's have a 650m explosion radius... Meaning they are worthless except against battleships that are being painted. Even with these new changes, they will only be down in the realm of 260+. Also, it's very hard to fit T2 launchers on bombers. I think arbys are most popular.


774m explosion radius (19% increase) and a 5.6% bump in damage. GMP V brings the explosion radius down to 600m.

Check the google docs spreadsheet in https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029&find=unread


I forgot they were changing the T2 missiles as well. Makes Rages even worse for a bomber. But most people don't look into the details


If you had looked at the details, you'd have realised that an explosion radius of 600 m (actually it's 580.5 m with GMP V) is better than one of 650 m... Straight



What exactly are you talking about?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-11-17 08:03:17 UTC
Eridanii wrote:
So with the changes to all missile skills, implants, and rigs affecting all sub-cap missiles, it seems that Stealth Bombers are going to be a whole lot more useful in a few weeks. Right now their DPS is laughable at most ships below BC's due to the 450m explosion radius of torps. By my calculations, you can reduce that to about 203m with level 5 guided missile skill, a 6% implant, and two Rigor Catalyst II rigs on your bomber. With a standard crash booster, you're looking at 162m!!! Welcome to the full force of torpedos against cruiser sized targets (assuming they are moving slowly...). Small ships who are smart can still speed-tank well against the bomber, unless we see some brave bomber pilots fitting webs :-X One TP should effectively replace the gain of the booster for those of you who don't partake in the smuggling of contraband goods. Should see some amazing alpha damage combined with a bomb launcher (which keeps its 400m explosion radius).

Am I missing something?


Yes. Even T1 cruisers shred bombers with good tanks, much less ones that are slapping on T2 rigs and Torps. The only time you should ever decloak a bomber on a cruiser is if you have a falcon on standby to keep him from kicking your **** in.

Frankly if you threw a bomber against a cruiser, the bomber with it's best tank and the cruiser with it's crappiest the cruiser is likely to thrash the bomber. Moreso if he has a dronebay worth talking about.
Songbird
#28 - 2012-11-18 12:54:36 UTC
so tired of linking this russian guy's video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLtHzH3uWis
here - this is what a bomber can do - enjoy
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-11-18 14:09:01 UTC
Theorycrafting around bombers is cool, however theorycrafting around ships able to spank those ass is the best way to start to then figure the bombers buff in fact it's not really one. They're not either getting nerf, they will be at a status quo of their current situation which is rather balanced.

brb
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-11-18 14:20:22 UTC
Songbird wrote:
so tired of linking this russian guy's video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLtHzH3uWis
here - this is what a bomber can do - enjoy



OGB, combat boosters, Dead Space modules, indeed. Then you are trying to convince people that can't already explain/accept/understand why any T3 can become a beast if you put the effort or isk in so bombers...you're loosing your time.

brb
Eridanii
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-11-18 19:03:01 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Theorycrafting around bombers is cool, however theorycrafting around ships able to spank those ass is the best way to start to then figure the bombers buff in fact it's not really one. They're not either getting nerf, they will be at a status quo of their current situation which is rather balanced.


As far as balance, I think they aren't as useful as they should be. This change makes them a bit more useful. They can still be popped by a lot of ships but I think these changes open up the list of targets people would be willing to uncloak and fight against. Should see more bombers killed and more ships killed by bombers.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-11-18 23:37:23 UTC
Eridanii wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Theorycrafting around bombers is cool, however theorycrafting around ships able to spank those ass is the best way to start to then figure the bombers buff in fact it's not really one. They're not either getting nerf, they will be at a status quo of their current situation which is rather balanced.


As far as balance, I think they aren't as useful as they should be. This change makes them a bit more useful. They can still be popped by a lot of ships but I think these changes open up the list of targets people would be willing to uncloak and fight against. Should see more bombers killed and more ships killed by bombers.



Well I didn't said it in my previous post because I thought it was implied that you would understand it, but as far as I'm concerned by this buff, and I do because I use those in a regular basis, with OGB/Dead Space mods/combat boosters these ships will make a lot of talk about, probably too much because when you can easily kill frigates with a ship delivering so much dps at such stupid ranges it will obviously become a ship people will tend to fly over many others.

You will then be able to cumulate (while OGB is still available, and this will not change next year) Cloack ability, long range points, interceptors speed, battles cruiser dps, capable to annihilate frigate sized ships at even longer range than now and still fit bombs.

If no one sees any problem with this then I'm ok.

brb
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#33 - 2012-11-18 23:56:31 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Eridanii wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Theorycrafting around bombers is cool, however theorycrafting around ships able to spank those ass is the best way to start to then figure the bombers buff in fact it's not really one. They're not either getting nerf, they will be at a status quo of their current situation which is rather balanced.


As far as balance, I think they aren't as useful as they should be. This change makes them a bit more useful. They can still be popped by a lot of ships but I think these changes open up the list of targets people would be willing to uncloak and fight against. Should see more bombers killed and more ships killed by bombers.



Well I didn't said it in my previous post because I thought it was implied that you would understand it, but as far as I'm concerned by this buff, and I do because I use those in a regular basis, with OGB/Dead Space mods/combat boosters these ships will make a lot of talk about, probably too much because when you can easily kill frigates with a ship delivering so much dps at such stupid ranges it will obviously become a ship people will tend to fly over many others.

You will then be able to cumulate (while OGB is still available, and this will not change next year) Cloack ability, long range points, interceptors speed, battles cruiser dps, capable to annihilate frigate sized ships at even longer range than now and still fit bombs.

If no one sees any problem with this then I'm ok.



^ This.

Stealth bombers should be exactly that, Bombers. Useful to come out of stealth and take out or wound very large targets, but should be vulnerable to small / mid sized ships. Namely because they already are stealthers with speed and firepower to start.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Songbird
#34 - 2012-11-19 10:59:35 UTC
everybody uses ogb - come on - you know the old saying - if you're not cheating you're not trying hard enough. Those guys in battlecruisers killed by a bomber are just too lazy to get a proper setup. I'm sure the bomber guy ignored a lot of targets defended by interceptors or a loki with long web or some similar way. That's the beauty of sb- you choose your targets .
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-11-19 14:51:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Songbird wrote:
everybody uses ogb


That's why it's terrible for the game and needs to get nerf to the ground and beyond that. OGB is for sure the major factor of why so many stupid anger misunderstanding and bad talking about Tengus and in general T3 ships.

It's undeniable T3 command sub needs a huge nerf stick right in the face but every other configuration of whatever T3 becomes a true killing machine when you add overpowered off grid boosting (T3) on top of already exponentially powerful dead space mods.
The video you just linked clearly show how bad this is for the game:

-A stealth bomber with AB at 4km/s speed?
-A stealth bomber with 40Km+ point?

Add shield links+implants and it's obvious it becomes an overpowered tool, none should be able to cumulate so many self positive effects and if this now is still possible it's only because of a terrible game mechanic implementation=OGB

This is in no shape or form something valuable to this game.
It makes it only look like those old private servers where random pawn could create his own character with specific attributes instaklling everything while having little risk to die. It's nothing more than than an authorised hack leading me once again to observe how silly this game is with such potential being wasted with such poor man mechanics.
Not requiring any sort of positive intellectual to make those mechanics work at best for you but rather some sort of perverted or marginal intellectual state of mind.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be any sort of paladin of whatsoever or trying to moralise this game, first because it would be a pure waste of my time and I've got better to do, and second because someone with a couple neurons working correctly and reading this forum would clearly see how much Darwin would be convulsed in his coffin if he could ever read it.

brb
Songbird
#36 - 2012-11-19 16:02:48 UTC
yeah ogb is terribly broken - that's why I called it cheating.
OTH they make money from those ofb accounts and probably will never change the mechanic. And boy do I wish it went away. - all these command ships will see some use.
But then again it is in the spirit of the game - the prepared, the rich, the one with extra isk to sponsor such off grid booster are also the ones who have purchased the IWin button. I'm sure they will continue to win even if it became on grid booster- they'll put in the effort and find the tactic and purchase the ships and probably practice a lot. They just won't have the ace up their sleeve but it will be right there on the table - for you to counter it, but still an ace. After all would it matter if the booster is 20 AU away or 200 km away - you still won't be able to reach it - sitting out there out of your reach - ready to warp away at the first sign of trouble while the combat ships are in your face killing ya :P.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#37 - 2012-11-19 16:13:42 UTC
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530

wrote:
As a side note, as we announced a while ago, we are not pleased by having Warfare Links work outside the battlefield zone, and will be investigating options to move them on grid. Command and Tech3 ships providing that much of an advantage should commit to an engagement instead of being safely parked inside a POS bubble.


\0/

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Matthias Vilmet
Covarium
Minmatar Fleet Associates
#38 - 2012-11-20 14:07:22 UTC
Eridanii wrote:
So with the changes to all missile skills, implants, and rigs affecting all sub-cap missiles, it seems that Stealth Bombers are going to be a whole lot more useful in a few weeks. Right now their DPS is laughable at most ships below BC's due to the 450m explosion radius of torps. By my calculations, you can reduce that to about 203m with level 5 guided missile skill, a 6% implant, and two Rigor Catalyst II rigs on your bomber. With a standard crash booster, you're looking at 162m!!! Welcome to the full force of torpedos against cruiser sized targets (assuming they are moving slowly...). Small ships who are smart can still speed-tank well against the bomber, unless we see some brave bomber pilots fitting webs :-X One TP should effectively replace the gain of the booster for those of you who don't partake in the smuggling of contraband goods. Should see some amazing alpha damage combined with a bomb launcher (which keeps its 400m explosion radius).

Am I missing something?


You are missing the fact that Rigor Catalyst and Guided Missile Precision only work for guided missiles, light, heavy, and cruise missiles.

Javelins are better to use anyway, because they will do higher actual damage.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-11-20 15:55:54 UTC
Eridanii wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
Eridanii wrote:

I forgot they were changing the T2 missiles as well. Makes Rages even worse for a bomber. But most people don't look into the details


If you had looked at the details, you'd have realised that an explosion radius of 600 m (actually it's 580.5 m with GMP V) is better than one of 650 m... Straight



What exactly are you talking about?


You stated that Rage would be "even worse for a bomber". This is wrong.
Matthias Vilmet
Covarium
Minmatar Fleet Associates
#40 - 2012-11-20 15:58:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Matthias Vilmet
Rages are worse for a bomber. On most ships. Might as well go with Javelins, which do better damage across the board .... AND have amazing range.

I did the spreadsheet calculations just the other day versus an "average" shiptype.
Here is what I came up with.


(Javelin....TARGET........Inferno)

8.5.....Frigate..............6.5
19.....Destroyer.........14.5
25.......Cruiser.............19
46.5.... C. Cruiser......35.5
120.....Battlecruiser.....92
305.5.... Battleship..... 234.5
405.......Freighter........ 608
109.5...... Industrial......84



This is the damage of one missile. Notice anything about the Javelins?
EDIT: These numbers are with the new missiles in the coming patch.... it's also why Javelin missiles didn't get buffed, because they were even better before.
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