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Nerf Moaning Null Bears PLS
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Ghazu
#661 - 2012-11-14 18:33:33 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Ghazu wrote:

Your reasons do not sufficiently explain what is so goddamn sacred about highsec manufacturing, everything in the game goes through nerfs, null sanctums, lvl 4 meta drops, FW, Incursion, even combat : supercaps/titan tracking/heavy missiles. Highsec can weather a nerf, no need to be all chicken little about it. Also I reiterate progress towards greater redesign changes can take place at the same time.


I was advocating nerfs on L4 and L5 before your character was created, just check the (old) missioning forums, when another nerf asking guy would post his L4 ISK per hour and I would confirm with my own.
I was in first line advocating nerfs on Incursions.

It's now weeks I am trying to convince people in game to accept pay to go gank miners in hi sec.

L4/L5 and incursion nerfs were necessary, the money printing was going too rampant.
Hi sec research got indirectly taxed with PI tax reflecting on fuels (plus it requires charters).
But industry does not create any money.

So it's not the ISK printing this time. But you can't nerf hi sec industry if you first don't implement proper industry in null sec, else what do you achieve? You just increase industry costs overboard but null sec will still be unable to produce because they just don't have the production lines to compete!

FW also wasn't printing "new" isk. Adding lines to null while increasing fees in null can be done immediately as opposed to null holding dickes for another 18 months.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#662 - 2012-11-14 18:41:01 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Also you keep talking about material volume transited while I talk about travels made (that before JFs would be riskier => more expensive and dangerous => more ISK lost).

Actually, the conversation was as follows:

You: Also, totally separating 0.0 sec into self-sufficiency would reduce the supply routes with all the related gameplay. There would not even be a reason to come to hi sec at all and the markets and activity in hi sec would vertically decline.
Me: Very few JFs are ganked compared to how many are flying about to/from nullsec, this is a "marginal" piece of gameplay.
You: The traffic of people moving around between null and hi sec is minimally covered by JFs. The guy in NPC nullsec moving 5 jumps just to buy some stuff is not going to even own a JF yet they are hardly the minority.
Me: You've absolutely no idea how much stuff we move in a day in a normal non-war state, let alone while we're at war, do you?
You: I do and removing easy mode cheap force and logistics projection would probably make overbloated size alliances crack and we'd have again a moltitude of smaller entities and more diversity.[/quote]

Sure looks to me like you're talking alliance-level logistics there, but now you're suddenly talking about individual level logistics?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#663 - 2012-11-14 18:48:51 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

Sure looks to me like you're talking alliance-level logistics there, but now you're suddenly talking about individual level logistics?


No I was talking of 2 different levels.

The incomprehension is too big to keep writing.
I have noticed there are other NERF hi sec threads running at the same time, it's like an hammering zombies invasion, so it's useless to even discuss.

Enjoy the nerfs, I'll be still trading your stuff unhindered.


EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#664 - 2012-11-14 18:55:39 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

Sure looks to me like you're talking alliance-level logistics there, but now you're suddenly talking about individual level logistics?


No I was talking of 2 different levels.

The incomprehension is too big to keep writing.
I have noticed there are other NERF hi sec threads running at the same time, it's like an hammering zombies invasion, so it's useless to even discuss.

Enjoy the nerfs, I'll be still trading your stuff unhindered.



Translation: Wow, Eve players sure are smart! Being specific is too damn hard to bother but nobody seems to understand me when I ramble incoherently about two different things. A lot of people apparently think the risk/reward balance of high-sec is off-kilter. But I'm still trading. Roll

I mean all you have to do is use some organizational skills to separate your ideas by category.

One would think that preserving the integrity of high-sec would be worth as little effort as it takes to reap its rewards. What?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#665 - 2012-11-14 19:06:23 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


For a quite neat explanation a nice guy posted the concept here.


So whats that got to do with the trillion thats being injected?
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#666 - 2012-11-14 19:08:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


For a quite neat explanation a nice guy posted the concept here.


So whats that got to do with the trillion thats being injected?



And what's the problem with players making isk? -none.

brb
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#667 - 2012-11-14 19:10:36 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:



And what's the problem with players making isk? -none.


Too much isk is a bad thing for everyone. As we found out earlyer this year, hence the incursion nerfBlink
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#668 - 2012-11-15 01:16:15 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


For a quite neat explanation a nice guy posted the concept here.


So whats that got to do with the trillion thats being injected?



And what's the problem with players making isk? -none.

Let me turn this around.

In a game about spaceship violences, what's wrong with players losing ISK?

There's nothing wrong with either. This seems obvliviously obvious.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#669 - 2012-11-15 14:51:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Dar Manic
Darth Gustav wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


For a quite neat explanation a nice guy posted the concept here.


So whats that got to do with the trillion thats being injected?



And what's the problem with players making isk? -none.

Let me turn this around.

In a game about spaceship violences, what's wrong with players losing ISK?

There's nothing wrong with either. This seems obvliviously obvious.


Which game is that?

Eve can be played without spaceship violence. It's been that way for quite a while too. Plenty of them enjoy it that way. Not everyone is playing Eve for pvp (read sig).



BTW, there's nothing wrong with ships blowing up and players losing isk. Plenty of play styles for players to choose from.

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#670 - 2012-11-15 16:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Dar Manic wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


For a quite neat explanation a nice guy posted the concept here.


So whats that got to do with the trillion thats being injected?



And what's the problem with players making isk? -none.

Let me turn this around.

In a game about spaceship violences, what's wrong with players losing ISK?

There's nothing wrong with either. This seems obvliviously obvious.


Which game is that?

Eve can be played without spaceship violence. It's been that way for quite a while too. Plenty of them enjoy it that way. Not everyone is playing Eve for pvp (read sig).



BTW, there's nothing wrong with ships blowing up and players losing isk. Plenty of play styles for players to choose from.

No it can not.

Spaceship violence is integral to every single aspect of Eve.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Ghazu
#671 - 2012-11-15 17:00:04 UTC
Dar Manic wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


For a quite neat explanation a nice guy posted the concept here.


So whats that got to do with the trillion thats being injected?



And what's the problem with players making isk? -none.

Let me turn this around.

In a game about spaceship violences, what's wrong with players losing ISK?

There's nothing wrong with either. This seems obvliviously obvious.


Which game is that?

Eve can be played without spaceship violence. It's been that way for quite a while too. Plenty of them enjoy it that way. Not everyone is playing Eve for pvp (read sig).



BTW, there's nothing wrong with ships blowing up and players losing isk. Plenty of play styles for players to choose from.

hey if everybody stopped blowing up each other and instead just /dance and emote each other in space barbie dlc nobody would buy your stuff.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#672 - 2012-11-15 17:14:07 UTC
Dar Manic wrote:
Eve can be played without spaceship violence.

If there's no spaceviolence, there's no reason to play EVE, because there's no demand for anything.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#673 - 2012-11-15 19:37:18 UTC
Please let this monsterthread never die because it is always full of lols.

www.facebook.com/RazorAlliance
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#674 - 2012-11-15 19:47:17 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Dar Manic wrote:
Eve can be played without spaceship violence.

If there's no spaceviolence, there's no reason to play EVE, because there's no demand for anything.


A player cannot play Eve without violence? Really?

I didn't say there wasn't violence. I didn't say there shouldn't be any ships blowing up (said just the opposite). But you are arguing Eve is only a PVP (read sig) game. It's not. lol

You are reading into my posts what is not there but I do appreciate the feedback (incorrect as it may be).




(the lol is so I can look as stupid as the people who use lol constantly!!)



I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#675 - 2012-11-15 19:50:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Dar Manic wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Dar Manic wrote:
Eve can be played without spaceship violence.

If there's no spaceviolence, there's no reason to play EVE, because there's no demand for anything.


A player cannot play Eve without violence? Really?

I didn't say there wasn't violence. I didn't say there shouldn't be any ships blowing up (said just the opposite). But you are arguing Eve is only a PVP (read sig) game. It's not. lol

You are reading into my posts what is not there but I do appreciate the feedback (incorrect as it may be).

(the lol is so I can look as stupid as the people who use lol constantly!!)



Oh really? Eve can be played without spaceship violence huh?

Even if you're just the recipient, you participated in playing out acts of spaceship violence.

Even if the mining vessels only kill NPCs with drones, you've engaged in acts of spaceship violence.

Even if you only buy and sell modules in stations, you've engaged in acts of spaceship violence yet to come.

There is not a feature of this game that doesn't rely on spaceship violence.

Including mining.

So you tell me, how can you play Eve without spaceship violence? Exactly how?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#676 - 2012-11-15 19:56:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
As I was saying, without spaceship violence, there'd be no demand for anything. No demand, no point in doing what some people try to fob off as "non-PVP activities".

Unless all you do is make that isk ticker tick up, in which case you'd be better off finding other, more rewarding games, but I digress.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#677 - 2012-11-16 19:46:19 UTC
34 pages of failed arguments... who would have thought it would happen in a GD thread.

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Anslo
Scope Works
#678 - 2012-11-16 19:48:14 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
As I was saying, without spaceship violence, there'd be no demand for anything. No demand, no point in doing what some people try to fob off as "non-PVP activities"


Then go forth and enjoy your spacehip violence. I did this weekend and had a fine time.

But not everyone has to be involved in it, if they don't want to. Smile

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#679 - 2012-11-16 19:50:20 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
As I was saying, without spaceship violence, there'd be no demand for anything. No demand, no point in doing what some people try to fob off as "non-PVP activities"


Then go forth and enjoy your spacehip violence. I did this weekend and had a fine time.

But not everyone has to be involved in it, if they don't want to. Smile

Those people don't have to undock if they don't want to risk spaceship violences.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Anslo
Scope Works
#680 - 2012-11-16 19:55:07 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
As I was saying, without spaceship violence, there'd be no demand for anything. No demand, no point in doing what some people try to fob off as "non-PVP activities"


Then go forth and enjoy your spacehip violence. I did this weekend and had a fine time.

But not everyone has to be involved in it, if they don't want to. Smile

Those people don't have to undock if they don't want to risk spaceship violences.


In low and nul sec I agree. Even highsec does also have its risks (ganking etc). The risks are there, but they still don't have to deal with it if they don't want to.

Saying they just "shouldn't undock" is a pitiful argument used on these forums too often. Smile

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]