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What I see coming from the new bounty system....

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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-11-15 18:06:15 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
That's because it would be unwise for a CCP developer to speak frankly and tell you 'we don't care'. I can't say if that is how CCP really feels about the subject, but I hope it is.



Bringing us back to the point that every thread degrades into.


CCP is a company that exists to maximize profits, and that means making a game that appeals to the widest range of people possible, by offering something for every one.

EVE has areas with few to no rules, allowing ample opportunity for those interested in PVP to PVP.

EVE also has areas with lots of rules that provides a place for those that are not interested in PVP to mostly avoid PVP.


Why can CCP not create a game with different areas, that appeal to various people with varying play style? Oh, they can... it is called EVE.

What I see is PVPers that see all the "potential targets" in high sec that think "Oh, if we can just push those carebears out to where I can kill them more easily, this game would be better." The reality is, that those players are only there because it is relatively safe... not absolutely safe, but relatively safe. Make it less safe, and they just quit playing.

How does it help the PVPers if all the carebears unsub?
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#42 - 2012-11-15 18:07:54 UTC
It's almost as if you care about CCP's revenue and this isn't really a whine thread about the cost of having to replace your precious Hulks. Well if that is your concern, you have nothing to worry about. The revenue from Dust514's micro-transaction will more than cover the losses from the quitting carebears anyway.

In fact, it's possible CCP want the miners to quit. The only reason miners mine is so they can sub with plex anyway... Perhaps by pushing all the miners out and raising the value of minerals, they can earn more money due to people buying more plex to cover their rising ship costs. I hadn't thought of that...

Oh god.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#43 - 2012-11-15 18:13:18 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:

Two flaws:
1) lot of the high sec ganking is done on throw away toons. It takes very little training to get into a DPS destroyer... The bounties will do little if placed on a throw away toon.
If a toon in inactive for a certain time the bounties will be given back to the person who places them so no problem there.

LHA Tarawa wrote:
2) Just as war dec's are used by PVP corps to blackmail industrial corps, I suspect the new bounty system is going to be used much the same.
This is true, altthough Im not sure people will bother frankly. Lets face it, who is going to put a bounty on a random miner? If they're being mouthy, they deserve it anyway.

LHA Tarawa wrote:
Because of the 20% payout, you have to lose 5x as much in ships as the bounty that is put on you. So, I see PVP corps blackmailing industrial corps like this: "Pay me 100 million a week, or I'll put 100 million a week bounty on you. It is cheaper to pay me the 100 million ISK than to lose 500 million ISK in ships to bounty hunters."


If they pay, then they're stupid. If they dont, and the PvP person puts 100m per week on someone, then he is stupid.

LHA Tarawa wrote:
The response, of course, from the industrialists will be to simply create a new corp (if it is corp bounties they are getting hit with) or let their accounts unsub for the length of time that it takes for the bounties to go away. This mass "unsub", of course, CCP is not going to ignore.
Your forgetting that even with the bounties its rarely profitable to suicide gank people with the new Barge hull changes.So the indy pilots dont really need to worry.


LHA Tarawa wrote:
In short, players are not going to use the system as intended. It is going to cause much grief amongst the carebear community that constitutes a HUGE chunk of CCPs paid accounts (revenue). Therefore, big changes will be made to the new bounty system fairly quickly after implementation. Then, the people that misused the bounty system to grief carebears will be all whiny about how we're nerfing the game again.


See above.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#44 - 2012-11-15 18:13:59 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
CCP is a company that exists to maximize profits, and that means making a game that appeals to the widest range of people possible, by offering something for every one.

That's quite an assumption you've made there. I'm glad you thought that through before posting.

Quote:
Make it less safe, and they just quit playing.

How does it help the PVPers if all the carebears unsub?

Because it increases tears generation and that is healthy for everyone.

Oh god.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2012-11-15 18:18:44 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
It's almost as if you care about CCP's revenue and this isn't really a whine thread about the cost of having to replace your precious Hulks.


I'm not going to be replacing hulks. If the new bounty system results in people coming to blow up my hulks, I unsub.

That is the underlying point that PVPers miss. Since you can't force me to play the game, you can't force me to be an easy target for griefing. Game mechanics that make it ways to grief me, will result in me quitting the game.

PVPers propose all these changes that they think will get them more kill mails. In reality, those changes will just result in fewer people doing those activities that make them easy kill.



I find it INCREDIBLY unlikely that CCP does not care about the revenue they receive from the carebears.


And even if they do not, how does it make the game more fun for you, if all the carebears quit playing? Sure, IF we all move out of high sec and do things that make it easier for you to kill us, the game would be more fun for you... but that is never going to happen. So, the question is limited to, how is the game more fun for you if I am not playing?

P.S. LOL..... at your comment about fewer carebears = more subs. Carebears buy PLEX. Remove the carebears, prices go up, PVPers buy more PLEX to pay for ships..... And who is buying these PLEX from the PVPers for ISK when the carebears, that buy the PLEX, are gone from the game?
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#46 - 2012-11-15 18:20:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
As a side note, your opinion of how this change will effect the subs is basically not important.

Your are vastly outnumbered by players thinking this idea is great, and the entirety of a successful company that designs computer games for a living thought it was a good idea. Why, exactly should we listen to one person?

I'm afraid your insignificant, just like everyone else.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#47 - 2012-11-15 18:25:24 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I'm not going to be replacing hulks. If the new bounty system results in people coming to blow up my hulks, I unsub.


The first victim of the new bounty system. This is a touching moment... and a delightful appetiser of things to come.

Oh god.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#48 - 2012-11-15 18:25:45 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:



CCP is a company that exists to maximize profits, and that means making a game that appeals to the widest range of people possible, by offering something for every one.

EVE has areas with few to no rules, allowing ample opportunity for those interested in PVP to PVP.

EVE also has areas with lots of rules that provides a place for those that are not interested in PVP to mostly avoid PVP.


Why can CCP not create a game with different areas, that appeal to various people with varying play style? Oh, they can... it is called EVE.

What I see is PVPers that see all the "potential targets" in high sec that think "Oh, if we can just push those carebears out to where I can kill them more easily, this game would be better." The reality is, that those players are only there because it is relatively safe... not absolutely safe, but relatively safe. Make it less safe, and they just quit playing.

How does it help the PVPers if all the carebears unsub?



Yea, many of us could reply to this nonsense demonstrating why it's really dumb (like, oh , maybe pointing out that if CCP wanted to "maximize profits" our space ships would have been dragons and the Amarr a race of Elves.....), but we all know the most likely thing that happens if you just dig you heels in further and rather than examine our argument vs your own to come to the truth, you'll just think us wrong and dismiss what we say.

So here, take some free online critical thinking courses, come back afterwords and look at your postings critically and understand what wrong. You don't have to come back here and tell us you understand, it will be enough to the bad logic you're using goes away.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#49 - 2012-11-15 18:26:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Schmata Bastanold
CCP has the best player base ever: everybody cares about it's revenue.

Also: in reality nobody cares or will care about bounty on your head, gankers gank and will gank because it's fun and because your hulk can drop nice mods. Any bounty will be just a bonus but mostly gank is a nice Friday night passing time.

Invalid signature format
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#50 - 2012-11-15 18:29:03 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
CCP has the best player base ever: everybody cares about it's revenue.


+1

I call it the "appeal to CCP's wallet", if that sounds like the name of a logical fallacy, well, that's because it is lol.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-11-15 18:30:22 UTC
There is also a 3rd flaw, which I am sure we are going to be happy to illustrate post patch.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#52 - 2012-11-15 18:36:33 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I'm just saying that I strongly suspect that the new bounty system will be used as an extortion system against carebears, and that will cause a lot of carebears to unsub.


That's what makes it good. This is the kind of content that makes EvE different from the other games I don't want to play. I can tell you to go play another game if you don't like it, but you can't say the same to me because there are no other games.

The difficult thing about your post is that you're directly speaking to a member of CCP development staff, looking for an answer they cannot give. That's because it would be unwise for a CCP developer to speak frankly and tell you 'we don't care'. I can't say if that is how CCP really feels about the subject, but I hope it is.




The point of the OP was not to "speak directly to a Dev" looking for an answer.

The point of the OP was to point out what I see coming for the new bounty system. It is not going to be used by carebears to put bounties on griefers. It is going to be used by griefers to extort carebears. That is going to result in carebears, a major source of revenue for CCP, un-subbing. That is going to result in changes being made to the system, then massive whines from the griefers when CCP is forced to alter the system.



Now, I could be wrong. Maybe griefers won't use the system to grief carebears, and it will be used by carebears to discourage griefing.... but judging from the total absence of posts from carebears chomping at the bit for the opportunity to put bounties on griefers, and the large number of posts from people hoping this will cause high sec to burn, I HIGHLY doubt I am wrong.

I could also be wrong that the new bounty system will cause more people to unsub than sub. However, the game as it exists now offers AMPLE opportunity to PVP if that is what you are interested in. Therefore, I do not see the new bounty system pulling in more players that are looking to PVP. Rather, I see it bringing grief to carebears, and those carebears dropping, in larger numbers than we see new subs of people looking for new ways to grief carebears.



I will wait and see what happens. I'm just pointing out what I suspect will happen.

Again, to summarize:

Griefers will put bounties on carebears and then extort them to pay up or be hit with larger bounties. Bounty hunters will come and kill carebears to collect bounties. Carebears will get tired of the griefing and unsub. CCP will make changes to the bounty system to halt the carebear unsubs. Griefers will whine when the bounty system is changed to make it harder for them to grief carebears.


I could be wrong about the future of the new bounty system.... but I doubt it.


Aside from the myriad of flaws and assumptions filling this post, you need to realize that killing someone isn't griefing... end of story.

The fact that you mindlessly use this term repeatedly illustrates how truly limited your point of view actually is. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#53 - 2012-11-15 18:37:26 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Valerie Tessel wrote:
The bounty system won't give a profit motive to the gankers as it will still be unprofitable to kill in hisec without a kill right.



Wrong.

A fleet of DPS destroyers, after insurance payouts, is super cheap. The bounty doesn't have to be especially large to make it profitable to gank that hulk/mack/orca/freighter.


The lack of profit is on the side of the person placing the bounty.... unless placing bounties is (and it will be) used as a blackmail tool against carebears.



After the change, can't we sell kill rights? Won't there be eager revenge seekers and those that wish to grief the griefers?

So 5 guys hank my mac. I now have 5 kill rights to sell. At 50 mil a pop, I can profit. Now maybe they are throw away alts... In which case, finding toons that are biomassed before kill rights are wold and active may be cause to petition ccp and get the griefer band for avoid sec penalties. If they aren't biomassed, the kill rights generated by a gank squad May just be sold to cover what you lost.

Seems like no real change to me.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#54 - 2012-11-15 18:39:13 UTC
Aryth wrote:
There is also a 3rd flaw, which I am sure we are going to be happy to illustrate post patch.


I have little doubt flaws will be found. Goons should know better than anyone that it is probably in their best interests to point it out now rather than later.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-11-15 18:47:15 UTC  |  Edited by: LHA Tarawa
Aryth wrote:
There is also a 3rd flaw, which I am sure we are going to be happy to illustrate post patch.



Let's see....

Someone puts a bounty on you.... You get into a ship with an insurance payout that matches the cost of the ship. You have your alt kill you. You collect the insurance and the bounty. As long as neither you nor your alt post kill mails, no one knows your alt killed you for the bounty....


The bigger the bounty on you, the bigger the reward for having your alt kill you for the bounty.

Or... is the bounty payout being 1/5th the loss going to be the amount ABOVE insurance payout?
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#56 - 2012-11-15 18:49:09 UTC
Pretty sure you don't get an insurance payout when you're paying off a bounty.

Oh god.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2012-11-15 18:50:43 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Pretty sure you don't get an insurance payout when you're paying off a bounty.



I didn't see THAT change in the dev blog.

Right now, people with bounties on them still get insurance payout when they lose a ship. I do not see why they would not post change.
Kara Vix
Perkone
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-11-15 18:53:33 UTC
The current system has been bad since day one. The new system looks terrific, can someone find a way to grief with it-probably, but if that happens the same system can be used to grief him back. I look forward to this going live.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#59 - 2012-11-15 18:53:59 UTC
Then I guess that would be a flaw. Null sec alliances already earn a profit on the ships they lose, as far as I'm aware.

Oh god.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2012-11-15 19:04:56 UTC
Kara Vix wrote:
The current system has been bad since day one. The new system looks terrific, can someone find a way to grief with it-probably, but if that happens the same system can be used to grief him back. I look forward to this going live.



Yes, the current bounty system is horrid. I disagree that the new system looks terrific.

I think the new system is open to all sorts of unintended uses and exploits, not the least of which will be its use to extort carebears.