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Help with the paradox of EvE?
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Veda Idama
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-11-15 11:26:55 UTC
Hello all

Very new player considering how to approach this unique game.

I play for PvP primarily and I love the idea of meaningful battles and a skilled combat system. Like many, I left the likes of WoW as PvP became more of an isolated sport then a world at war.

I've finished the tutorials and between running missions, I'm happily flying Frigs into low-sec and getting blown up. Thank God for insurance! Trying to learn more about controlling fights with tackling and how to fit ships.

Here's the problem: Right now I'm a solo player and since I don't have a lot of time to play, that's fine with me. I figure i'll have to start flying with people soon to get better PvP experience and possibly join a corp but who can you trust?

In a game where seemingly everyone is out to kill/scam you, how do you work with other players?

Do you take a risk and hope for the best or can you still enjoy the wider aspects of this game as a solo player? Am I missing something?

Sorry if this has been asked before and thanks in advance for your responses.

Veda

[i]dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraḿ yauvanaḿ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati[/i]
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#2 - 2012-11-15 11:30:14 UTC
Trust but verify

Blink

At some time you have to take a risk. You can, however, mitigate the risk by doing your research.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#3 - 2012-11-15 11:32:23 UTC
Take a small risk and see if it goes wrong, if not risk a little bit more, if still nothing goes wrong then you can risk more and more till... it goes wrong :)

So if you look for a corp do some background checks to figure out if they're active, non-idiots and actually suit your playstyle. Then you join them (that's the first small risk), fly cheap ships and see if they blow you up or otherwise lead you into trouble, if not then you can slowly devote more time, effort and assets to that group. But always be wary and always think before you act.

Everyone gets burned in EVE at some point ,one way or the other. Many people will just quit after the first problem while others will get back on their feet and move ahead, a little bit wiser.
Johnny Kelso
Vargures
#4 - 2012-11-15 11:35:46 UTC
The Eve community is the most paronoid I've come across (Are you looking at me?)

Try RvB, you'll still get blown up a lot, but you will learn a lot as well. And you can trust them (mostly)
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
#5 - 2012-11-15 11:37:05 UTC
You could look into RvB. Plenty of frigate PVP going on there, and mostly people are nice and can be trusted at least by other corp members. If you ask in local for a T1 frig 1v1, or head over to Nomaa (dedicated 1v1 system), you can easily get a fair fight. Or if you fancy flying with a fleet, you can do that too.
Veda Idama
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-11-15 11:38:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Veda Idama
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Take a small risk and see if it goes wrong, if not risk a little bit more, if still nothing goes wrong then you can risk more and more till... it goes wrong :)

So if you look for a corp do some background checks to figure out if they're active, non-idiots and actually suit your playstyle. Then you join them (that's the first small risk), fly cheap ships and see if they blow you up or otherwise lead you into trouble, if not then you can slowly devote more time, effort and assets to that group. But always be wary and always think before you act.

Everyone gets burned in EVE at some point ,one way or the other. Many people will just quit after the first problem while others will get back on their feet and move ahead, a little bit wiser.


I think your sig sums up your response perfectly Smile Thank you

[i]dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraḿ yauvanaḿ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati[/i]
Veda Idama
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-11-15 11:41:10 UTC
Johnny Kelso wrote:
The Eve community is the most paronoid I've come across (Are you looking at me?)

Try RvB, you'll still get blown up a lot, but you will learn a lot as well. And you can trust them (mostly)


Thanks for the reply. I think that's kind of the point for me.

If you can't trust anyone, how can you trust someone?

I'm guessing the risk/reward part of the game is where the real draw and fun comes from?

[i]dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraḿ yauvanaḿ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati[/i]
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-11-15 11:45:16 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Veda Idama wrote:
Hello all

Very new player considering how to approach this unique game.

I play for PvP primarily and I love the idea of meaningful battles and a skilled combat system. Like many, I left the likes of WoW as PvP became more of an isolated sport then a world at war.

I've finished the tutorials and between running missions, I'm happily flying Frigs into low-sec and getting blown up. Thank God for insurance! Trying to learn more about controlling fights with tackling and how to fit ships.

Here's the problem: Right now I'm a solo player and since I don't have a lot of time to play, that's fine with me. I figure i'll have to start flying with people soon to get better PvP experience and possibly join a corp but who can you trust?

In a game where seemingly everyone is out to kill/scam you, how do you work with other players?

Do you take a risk and hope for the best or can you still enjoy the wider aspects of this game as a solo player? Am I missing something?

Sorry if this has been asked before and thanks in advance for your responses.

Veda


Vilnius actually is spot on.

In EVE you have to approach anything like they are there to scam you.

If you join a corporation, don't put everything on the line at day one. Do stuff in things you are okay with if they get destroyed. If it turns out the corp is a good one you can increase your risks in small steps (but ALWAYS keep stuff safe just in case it turns things do go bad in time).

And unlike many posts and having the reputation of being Scam heaven, not many corporations/players are out there to scam you/kill you while they are friendly towards you. It's just that those that do, do it properly and in such way it reaches the news (an awoxer killing a frigate won't receive 1 line on any news site, that same awoxer getting a titan, yeah that's food for news sites).

As for joining a corporation. Research is the key, don't just join cause you found them on top of some list you looked at.
Let me see if I can find that great post of a while back about joining a corp. It shows what to look for and to be aware of certain things.

As for PvP. Also take into account the different types of PvP EVE can offer and find which one suits you best.

Just some examples:

* Suicide ganking (though not many people will call this true PvP)
* High-sec wardecs
* Faction Warfare
* Low-sec PvP (commonly known as pirates)
* Null-sec PvP, which can be sub divided into
- Roaming in null-sec while not living in it / while living in NPC null-sec
- Be part of a SOV alliance and do the SOV warfare grinds

So PvP is not just shooting another ship, there are different types of PvP. Same for the kind of ships used, from fast roaming gangs (frigates and sorts) up to big fleet slug fests (BS and capitals).

EDIT:

Found the website: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=130755#post130755

Look at it, should help you find a corporation to fly with.

And if you just want laid back PvP. I do suggest taking a look at Red vs Blue, they are 2 high-sec alliances in constant war with each other and other parties just for the sake of having nice fights.

Their website

Their recruitment post

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#9 - 2012-11-15 11:46:04 UTC
Veda Idama wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Take a small risk and see if it goes wrong, if not risk a little bit more, if still nothing goes wrong then you can risk more and more till... it goes wrong :)

So if you look for a corp do some background checks to figure out if they're active, non-idiots and actually suit your playstyle. Then you join them (that's the first small risk), fly cheap ships and see if they blow you up or otherwise lead you into trouble, if not then you can slowly devote more time, effort and assets to that group. But always be wary and always think before you act.

Everyone gets burned in EVE at some point ,one way or the other. Many people will just quit after the first problem while others will get back on their feet and move ahead, a little bit wiser.


I think your sig sums up your response perfectly Smile Thank you


Pretty much, if you put in the effort to stick to it then you'll do fine in EVE. Many people don't and when it inevitably goes wrong they'll blame it on others or "bad luck", where in fact they should blame it on their own lack of preparation.
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-11-15 11:47:21 UTC
Veda Idama wrote:
Hello all

Very new player considering how to approach this unique game.

I play for PvP primarily and I love the idea of meaningful battles and a skilled combat system. Like many, I left the likes of WoW as PvP became more of an isolated sport then a world at war.

I've finished the tutorials and between running missions, I'm happily flying Frigs into low-sec and getting blown up. Thank God for insurance! Trying to learn more about controlling fights with tackling and how to fit ships.

Here's the problem: Right now I'm a solo player and since I don't have a lot of time to play, that's fine with me. I figure i'll have to start flying with people soon to get better PvP experience and possibly join a corp but who can you trust?

In a game where seemingly everyone is out to kill/scam you, how do you work with other players?

Do you take a risk and hope for the best or can you still enjoy the wider aspects of this game as a solo player? Am I missing something?

Sorry if this has been asked before and thanks in advance for your responses.

Veda


Try to join a corp. For your case maybe a faction warfare corp or RvB. Use the corp recruitment tool ingame or check the recruitment forums.

This game gets bettern when you fly with other people.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-11-15 11:56:05 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Veda Idama wrote:
Johnny Kelso wrote:
The Eve community is the most paronoid I've come across (Are you looking at me?)

Try RvB, you'll still get blown up a lot, but you will learn a lot as well. And you can trust them (mostly)


Thanks for the reply. I think that's kind of the point for me.

If you can't trust anyone, how can you trust someone?

I'm guessing the risk/reward part of the game is where the real draw and fun comes from?



Trust in EVE has to be earned. Both ways.

So that new recruit that just joined a corporation won't be trusted with important info, important ships to move around or access to high end stuff in corp hangars.

The other way around, that same recruit should not trust anybody in the corp fully to give him his stuff.

In time you will grow trust from both sides and you will become to trust members in EVE.

The reason why people don't trust others, EVE is a game of meta gaming and nothing is more common then alt characters of player and the most common form of meta gaming is the creation of alts to spy on other corporations. Thus that new recruit can be a genuine new character from a genuine new person just joining EVE and be a perfect guy in real life, but it can also be just another alt from a veteran grief player who just want to spy on the corporation about what they do, when and where so he can kill them.

*there are certain exceptions in EVE though, almost anybody in EVE trusts Cribba, even if they never met him. It's cause he has the reputation to be trustworthy.*

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-11-15 12:00:19 UTC
Maybe don't join a corp who asks for a FULL API key X
Veda Idama
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-11-15 12:03:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Veda Idama
Thanks for all the responses. I think i'll need to do a lot more reading and research before I join any corp

On that note, how viable is it to play as a solo player or even with just a few people?

Can you 'make a living' solo or is it as viable as you make it? I figure that's a playstyle will less risk attached?

Veda

[i]dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraḿ yauvanaḿ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati[/i]
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-11-15 12:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Tao Dolcino wrote:
Maybe don't join a corp who asks for a FULL API key X


The fun part, API checks only kills the stupid spies.

A proper spy is on a separate account with NO links to the main and no transactions/donations/mails to the main character. Which means, no API check ever will see that it is a spy.

It's just something that most corporations do to give them the idea that they run a proper security.

Though I must admit, I really dislike other corporations that ask for my assets / manufacture jobs / market orders etc.
That is none of their business, though sharing skills, mails, wallet journal is just fine. Got nothing to hide.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#15 - 2012-11-15 12:10:16 UTC
Veda Idama wrote:
Thanks for all the responses. I think i'll need to do a lot more reading and research before I join any corp

On that note, how viable is it to play as a solo player or even with just a few people?

Can you 'make a living' solo or is it as viable as you make it?

Veda


You can do fine solo. The thing is that EVE can be played on many different (intensity) levels and some simply require you to be part of a proper group, apart from that you tend to learn more, grow faster and see many more different aspects of the game if you group up with others.

The game caters just fine for solo, small group as massive alliance type of players and allows for a casual playstyle just as much as it does for people to take the game (way too) serious. You can mix&match your "serious" level with the solo/group thing just fine so you can choose to take it easy in big groups or take it serious solo, or vice versa. Just whatever you do make sure you choose the stuff you LIKE, based on research and some proper planning.

Would you enjoy solo mission running or mining then you're fine, would you enjoy being part of a massive alliance doing your part in the war effort then that also works just fine. Or pick anything in between.
Jan Deltord
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-11-15 12:13:54 UTC
Tao Dolcino wrote:
Maybe don't join a corp who asks for a FULL API key X


If you do that, then one day you will find yourself belonging to a corp with no cash, no ships, and nothing in the hangars. Or you'll wonder why all your operations mysteriously stuff up.

It is a paradox, but what I would say is there are only three assets worth having in EvE - knowledge of how to play, and the respect of both your friends, and the respect of your enemies.

Starting from zero is remarkably simple - even without calling in favours from friends, within a couple of hours, you can be back in a ship that can hunt rats big enough to earn your next ship.

Respect of your friends gets you those favours, of course.

And the respect of your enemies is important, because you never know when todays enemies become tomorrow's friends.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-11-15 12:19:42 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Veda Idama wrote:
Thanks for all the responses. I think i'll need to do a lot more reading and research before I join any corp

On that note, how viable is it to play as a solo player or even with just a few people?

Can you 'make a living' solo or is it as viable as you make it?

Veda


You can do fine solo. The thing is that EVE can be played on many different (intensity) levels and some simply require you to be part of a proper group, apart from that you tend to learn more, grow faster and see many more different aspects of the game if you group up with others.

The game caters just fine for solo, small group as massive alliance type of players and allows for a casual playstyle just as much as it does for people to take the game (way too) serious. You can mix&match your "serious" level with the solo/group thing just fine so you can choose to take it easy in big groups or take it serious solo, or vice versa. Just whatever you do make sure you choose the stuff you LIKE, based on research and some proper planning.

Would you enjoy solo mission running or mining then you're fine, would you enjoy being part of a massive alliance doing your part in the war effort then that also works just fine. Or pick anything in between.


Might aswel jsut start posting:

See Vilnius' post above.

Again, spot on.

Solo is possible (In before Oraac's "You don't have to join a corp" postP). Many players play EVE solo.

Most things can be done while not being part of a fixed group.
You can run missions solo, you can mine solo, trading is more or less a solo game (as you will be competing against each other when doing it with a group) even incursion have public fleets which means you can be a solo player that joins those fleets just for the duration of the Incursion. Even PvP is possible solo, though it requires a lot of experience in the game and it's mechanics, some nice amount of skillpoints and lots of dedication.

Small group:

VERY viable. Most things named above can be done in a small group with better efficiency.
While 3 guys run a level 4 mission, person 4 can clean up after it in the Noctis by salvaging/looting those wrecks. This means that the gun guys can move through missions more quickly.
While mining with a group, you can have 3 miners on field and person 4 in a hauler moving those ores to station (so the miner can stay and mine ores) or maybe sit in an Orca boosting those miners.
Incursions: well instead of public fleets, if you have a group of like minded persons, you can run your private fleets which means you know the others in the fleet and how they fit and run their ships, how their personality is etc.
PvP: well 2 guns can kill more/faster then 1. 3 guns can kill even more/faster then 2. see my point.

Big groups:

Well multiply anything said in small groups and there you have it. And the benefit they are able to split 'roles' in the corporation more easily.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-11-15 12:21:07 UTC
Jan Deltord wrote:
Tao Dolcino wrote:
Maybe don't join a corp who asks for a FULL API key X


If you do that, then one day you will find yourself belonging to a corp with no cash, no ships, and nothing in the hangars. Or you'll wonder why all your operations mysteriously stuff up.

It is a paradox, but what I would say is there are only three assets worth having in EvE - knowledge of how to play, and the respect of both your friends, and the respect of your enemies.

Starting from zero is remarkably simple - even without calling in favours from friends, within a couple of hours, you can be back in a ship that can hunt rats big enough to earn your next ship.

Respect of your friends gets you those favours, of course.

And the respect of your enemies is important, because you never know when todays enemies become tomorrow's friends.



You DO know that the API is read only.

NOBODY can cancel your jobs, nobody can access your wallet nor hangars.

So please, don't post fail replies that are totally inaccurate.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#19 - 2012-11-15 12:40:13 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Jan Deltord wrote:
Tao Dolcino wrote:
Maybe don't join a corp who asks for a FULL API key X


If you do that, then one day you will find yourself belonging to a corp with no cash, no ships, and nothing in the hangars. Or you'll wonder why all your operations mysteriously stuff up.

It is a paradox, but what I would say is there are only three assets worth having in EvE - knowledge of how to play, and the respect of both your friends, and the respect of your enemies.

Starting from zero is remarkably simple - even without calling in favours from friends, within a couple of hours, you can be back in a ship that can hunt rats big enough to earn your next ship.

Respect of your friends gets you those favours, of course.

And the respect of your enemies is important, because you never know when todays enemies become tomorrow's friends.



You DO know that the API is read only.

NOBODY can cancel your jobs, nobody can access your wallet nor hangars.

So please, don't post fail replies that are totally inaccurate.



What he meant is that it works both ways so while asking for a full API means you're giving up some of your privacy it also means that the corp tends to keep out the unwanted a bit more. Result is that corps who DO have some security measures in place are less susceptible to spies, awoxers and corp thieves.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-11-15 12:46:58 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Jan Deltord wrote:
Tao Dolcino wrote:
Maybe don't join a corp who asks for a FULL API key X


If you do that, then one day you will find yourself belonging to a corp with no cash, no ships, and nothing in the hangars. Or you'll wonder why all your operations mysteriously stuff up.

It is a paradox, but what I would say is there are only three assets worth having in EvE - knowledge of how to play, and the respect of both your friends, and the respect of your enemies.

Starting from zero is remarkably simple - even without calling in favours from friends, within a couple of hours, you can be back in a ship that can hunt rats big enough to earn your next ship.

Respect of your friends gets you those favours, of course.

And the respect of your enemies is important, because you never know when todays enemies become tomorrow's friends.



You DO know that the API is read only.

NOBODY can cancel your jobs, nobody can access your wallet nor hangars.

So please, don't post fail replies that are totally inaccurate.



What he meant is that it works both ways so while asking for a full API means you're giving up some of your privacy it also means that the corp tends to keep out the unwanted a bit more. Result is that corps who DO have some security measures in place are less susceptible to spies, awoxers and corp thieves.


My bad, read the post wrong.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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