These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Science & Industry

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Production in null - worthwile?

First post
Author
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#21 - 2012-11-13 19:09:10 UTC
They need to make null-sec just like hi-sec. Make low-sec the same too. Then everyone will stop complaining. ;)



might have to make this a 5/10 since people have taken the bait.

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.

Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-11-13 19:15:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Katsuko
Depends on the specific situation.

In most of null, production slots aren't much of an issue. If for some reason the station slots are constantly occupied, you can always put up a production POS for a fairly modest investment.

Mineral supply is the biggest limit on viable nullsec production. Odds are, you will have to import huge amounts of Tritanium and other low-end minerals, plus any high-ends that are not supplied by your local ores. That may or may not be viable, depending on how far your production system is from your low-sec staging system. The Drone Regions used to be an exception, but CCP Greyscale shafted our industrial sector by removing drone alloys without adding a useful replacement supply of low-end minerals. Not that in the long run it wasn't a bad thing, but would've been nice if CCP also balanced mineral supply.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-11-13 19:53:19 UTC
Dar Manic wrote:
They need to make null-sec just like hi-sec. Make low-sec the same too. Then everyone will stop complaining. ;)

[


Complaining never stops.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#24 - 2012-11-13 19:58:42 UTC
Alice Katsuko wrote:
In most of null, production slots aren't much of an issue. If for some reason the station slots are constantly occupied, you can always put up a production POS for a fairly modest investment.
…and at a drastically increased logistical inconvenience since all you've done is inject another location from which you need to constantly shuttle materials and products back and forth, since it has (very) limited space for both and since it offers no easy way of distributing said goods.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#25 - 2012-11-13 20:05:11 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Warp Planet6 wrote:
Shocked

Well, manufacturing slots are en masse available where I live. Your point in minerals might be a reason for that, don't know. I really thought there is any advantage of producing in null. In fact, I thought null would be the best choice in any way when it comes to production locations....

No I am really disappointed Sad


Theoretically, manufacturing in NPC null should be at least as good as Empire, but strangely, even though mining in nullsec is apparently safer than in hi-sec, no one seems to mine in NPC 0.0 despite all those big empty belts full of all kinds of ores. So without minerals, it's difficult.

I suggest forming a mining corp and leading a few of the more timid hi-sec miners who can't stand the danger levels of The Forge or Kor-Azor and setting up shop in, let's say, Curse. That should get you a good supply of minerals. HLW- has 7 or 8 stations if I recall correctly, and rarely more than a dozen people in local, so you should have plenty of manufacturing, refining and researching facilities to use.

It's only 2 jumps from the mission hub in G-0Q, so you'll get plenty of customers!

PS Tell Darkside I said "hi" if you see them,


Another intell SNAFU that kind of turned on CCP.
Go to an "NPC" System with a station and manufacturing ability, look at the POCO ownerships. See how "empty" the space really is.
Trendon Evenstar
Olympus Gods
#26 - 2012-11-13 20:27:38 UTC
Ze'jira Penshar wrote:
Sure it is!

If you have an alliance, a blob fleet, a few industrial corps, a few POSs, Outposts, super caps, trillions of isk, a financier, a real world accounting firm....


We have all that and production in 0.0 is still worthless. High sec manufacturing beats it every way possible. So sure- you can do production in 0.0 if you don't mind being inefficient, not cost-effective, non-competitive, non-expedient and generally a whole lot of sourcing and logistics hassle for something you could make better money doing 1 jump from Jita.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#27 - 2012-11-13 20:34:44 UTC
Alice Katsuko wrote:
. The Drone Regions used to be an exception, but CCP Greyscale shafted our industrial sector by removing drone alloys without adding a useful replacement supply of low-end minerals.


Do you not have veldspar/scordite rocks in your area of null. I seem to have plenty in mine.
Hemmo Paskiainen
#28 - 2012-11-13 20:55:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen
to make 0.0 realy work there must be a sec based general bonus to ships. something like:

high sec: normal bonus
lowsec: + 10% bonus to mining yield of all miningships
0.0: + 20 % bonus to mining yield of all miningships

same for production, invention facilities ect. this way you always encourage 0.0 because its always relative more profitable. Cheaper 0.0 means more initiative for explosions as its cheaper and thus improving the 0.0 fun. You know lawless space... duh what your going for to lawless space,... pew pew right?

Create cheap industry and miners will follow (more profitable and also more danger). Have cheap industry and activity go's up. Activity go's up more fun... more fun is more populair eve...... easy as peanuts

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?

MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-11-13 21:25:59 UTC
Aside from production a stable market is needed.

I have a feeling more people dont mass product outside of alliance needs because nearly every station you go to is DENIED if you are not blue.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#30 - 2012-11-13 21:38:12 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
Aside from production a stable market is needed.

I have a feeling more people dont mass product outside of alliance needs because nearly every station you go to is DENIED if you are not blue.


In that respect it wouldn't make much difference. I've never understood the abject paranoia of NBSI Outpost doctrine but even in space where NRDS is the doctrine, manufacturing is for the corp that runs the Outpost. There just aren't enough slots to be handing them out to neutrals.
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#31 - 2012-11-13 21:39:34 UTC
Ocih wrote:
MasterEnt wrote:
Aside from production a stable market is needed.

I have a feeling more people dont mass product outside of alliance needs because nearly every station you go to is DENIED if you are not blue.


In that respect it wouldn't make much difference. I've never understood the abject paranoia of NBSI Outpost doctrine but even in space where NRDS is the doctrine, manufacturing is for the corp that runs the Outpost. There just aren't enough slots to be handing them out to neutrals.


So the way null is run by the players creates issues with production? That has to be a lie. Everything is CCP's fault!!! ;)

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#32 - 2012-11-13 21:58:31 UTC
Dar Manic wrote:
Ocih wrote:
MasterEnt wrote:
Aside from production a stable market is needed.

I have a feeling more people dont mass product outside of alliance needs because nearly every station you go to is DENIED if you are not blue.


In that respect it wouldn't make much difference. I've never understood the abject paranoia of NBSI Outpost doctrine but even in space where NRDS is the doctrine, manufacturing is for the corp that runs the Outpost. There just aren't enough slots to be handing them out to neutrals.


So the way null is run by the players creates issues with production? That has to be a lie. Everything is CCP's fault!!! ;)


I too don't see any possible problems with letting hostiles dock in stations I own.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#33 - 2012-11-14 14:50:26 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Dar Manic wrote:
Ocih wrote:
MasterEnt wrote:
Aside from production a stable market is needed.

I have a feeling more people dont mass product outside of alliance needs because nearly every station you go to is DENIED if you are not blue.


In that respect it wouldn't make much difference. I've never understood the abject paranoia of NBSI Outpost doctrine but even in space where NRDS is the doctrine, manufacturing is for the corp that runs the Outpost. There just aren't enough slots to be handing them out to neutrals.


So the way null is run by the players creates issues with production? That has to be a lie. Everything is CCP's fault!!! ;)


I too don't see any possible problems with letting hostiles dock in stations I own.


Then don't complain about how null sec is played. You want a hi-sec environment played by null sec rules. Doesn't seem to be a contradiction there at all...

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.

Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-11-14 15:14:23 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
Alice Katsuko wrote:
. The Drone Regions used to be an exception, but CCP Greyscale shafted our industrial sector by removing drone alloys without adding a useful replacement supply of low-end minerals.


Do you not have veldspar/scordite rocks in your area of null. I seem to have plenty in mine.


People do not willingly mine Veldspar and other low-end ores in null, except while rolling hidden belts. The amount of Veldspar and other low-end ores in such belts is very small relative to aggregate local demand. If Veldspar content in such belts were to be increased, it would make those belts unprofitable to mine at current Tritanium prices relative to other activities, so that's not really a solution. A miner going for Veldspar is better off staying in high-sec, where he's not subject to roaming gangs, awoxers, cloaky campers, and the like.

There is a nice table from last year showing the flow of compressed low-end minerals (in the form of railguns and other such modules) from highsec to null. That flow wouldn't exist if nullsec mineral sources were properly balanced. I have some ideas for doing this, but the F&I section is swamped with ship rebalancing threads, so waiting until December to post them.

Either way, look at your local mineral market, and see if it's sufficient to support meaningful industrial activity. If the slots are there, and the minerals are there, then go for it. Otherwise, best off staying in high-sec.


Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-11-15 09:19:36 UTC
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
to make 0.0 realy work there must be a sec based general bonus to ships. something like:

high sec: normal bonus
lowsec: + 10% bonus to mining yield of all miningships
0.0: + 20 % bonus to mining yield of all miningships

same for production, invention facilities ect. this way you always encourage 0.0 because its always relative more profitable. Cheaper 0.0 means more initiative for explosions as its cheaper and thus improving the 0.0 fun. You know lawless space... duh what your going for to lawless space,... pew pew right?

Create cheap industry and miners will follow (more profitable and also more danger). Have cheap industry and activity go's up. Activity go's up more fun... more fun is more populair eve...... easy as peanuts


Adding a ship bonus depending on the sec status is imho not a good solution...
Maybe the other way around would be more viable: To reduce the mineral needs to produce in 0.0. Or reduce the production duration. Whatever.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-11-15 10:07:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
Adding a ship bonus depending on the sec status is imho not a good solution...
Maybe the other way around would be more viable: To reduce the mineral needs to produce in 0.0. Or reduce the production duration. Whatever.

Adding multipliers out of nowhere maybe can fix certain issues, but it won't be elegant solution anyways. If there weren't arbitarty numbers, but statistical outcome of present factors, that would be just great.
As it was stated, CCP had ideas on what they want to see in null more than a year ago, but no avail so far.
Prince Kobol
#37 - 2012-11-15 10:36:35 UTC
I personally think CCP have no idea how to fix Indy in null.
Tikera Tissant
#38 - 2012-11-17 22:01:39 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
I personally think CCP have no idea how to fix Indy in null.


What "fix" does null need?

You want safe industry, do it in high-sec.
Low and null have their dangerous, and will always have. If you want to build in low and null, you need to have the means to protect your industry.

If you have the means for protection, null or low sec industries are just fine, and can be extremely profitable.
If you don't, you can certainly try, but expect to be blown up and lose everything at some point.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#39 - 2012-11-17 22:08:38 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
As it was stated, CCP had ideas on what they want to see in null more than a year ago, but no avail so far.

Highsec is the way of the future.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#40 - 2012-11-17 22:10:02 UTC
Trendon Evenstar wrote:
Ze'jira Penshar wrote:
Sure it is!

If you have an alliance, a blob fleet, a few industrial corps, a few POSs, Outposts, super caps, trillions of isk, a financier, a real world accounting firm....


We have all that and production in 0.0 is still worthless. High sec manufacturing beats it every way possible. So sure- you can do production in 0.0 if you don't mind being inefficient, not cost-effective, non-competitive, non-expedient and generally a whole lot of sourcing and logistics hassle for something you could make better money doing 1 jump from Jita.

Surprise, the goons have tons of stuff.

I think the only real production is supercpitals, despite all that.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?