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Dev Blog: Stay on Target - UI Features set for Retribution

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Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#81 - 2012-11-14 20:55:52 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Nice work.

BTW - while you are making the final tweaks on the UI for Retribution, can you please remove the transparency from the capacitor indicator and change the active color from dull yellow to something with a higher contrast - say like bright neon green?

And, please do not forget to test the new UI against *all* of the possible in-game backgrounds, esp. against bright nebulas and the sun.


I would love to see a roughly teardrop-shaped capacitor "pool," so that it communicated recharge rate by width in addition to capacity by height. Larger capacitors would have taller indicators; faster recharging capacitors would have wider indicators.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Endymion Varg
Interstellar Vermin Inc.
#82 - 2012-11-14 20:57:56 UTC
(Didn't read the first five pages of the thread)

The changes look fantastic and I can't wait to play around with them! Only one small, simple request from me: please make it possible to show velocity and angular velocity of your target in space, and not just in the overview! Otherwise everything else is looking sweet, especially the new camera option!

Good job guys.

Will pirate for food.
Georgiy Giggle
Senclave
Apocalypse Now.
#83 - 2012-11-14 21:12:45 UTC
IMHO, this one: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63449/1/targets3.png is better then this one: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63528/1/retri.jpg

Why did they decide not to use first variant?

Not mastering proprieties, won't become firmly established. - Confucius
Georgiy Giggle
Senclave
Apocalypse Now.
#84 - 2012-11-14 21:17:15 UTC
Alice Katsuko wrote:
Also, just because one thing mirrors another, does not make it more intuitive. It will take all of two minutes for a player to figure out which is the shield layer, and which the hull for any reasonable HP display. The issue is not whether the locked target HP is intuitive to read so much as whether it is easy to read once you know what it represents.


Is it hard for you just to see it one time and to remember for ever? Or your brain can't contain such a huge data?

Not mastering proprieties, won't become firmly established. - Confucius
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-11-14 21:18:46 UTC
Georgiy Giggle wrote:
IMHO, this one: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63449/1/targets3.png is better then this one: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63528/1/retri.jpg

Why did they decide not to use first variant?

Complaints about intuitiveness, granularity and ease of determining information at a glance.
Georgiy Giggle
Senclave
Apocalypse Now.
#86 - 2012-11-14 21:25:06 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Complaints about intuitiveness, granularity and ease of determining information at a glance.


Then I prefer current targeting interface instead of shitload of small round lines of shield, armor, structure points.
Just my opinion.

Not mastering proprieties, won't become firmly established. - Confucius
Makalu Zarya
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#87 - 2012-11-14 21:40:02 UTC
So i'm not sure whether this has been mentioned since I can't be bothered reading 5 ages of comments...so the locked targets health looks better now..

but why on earth is the opening angle of the target's health 270 degrees?..,when your own is 180 degrees...it would be far easier for comparison reasons to make them identical, that way if you are say in a 1v1 you have a very good indication of how you are doing vs how your target is doing rather than having to figure out mightfight what his % is vs your % by estimating the arch that it sweeps out...

Please consider redoing it before the release.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-11-14 21:42:12 UTC
Georgiy Giggle wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Complaints about intuitiveness, granularity and ease of determining information at a glance.


Then I prefer current targeting interface instead of shitload of small round lines of shield, armor, structure points.
Just my opinion.

IMHO a rounded indicator supported having the selected target's HP show up on that target in space better than the current ones. Did it necessitate changing the target list? Maybe not, but considering the complaints about consistency with other parts of the UI that the initial incarnation got I'm not sure 2 methods would so over well.
Dar Saleem
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2012-11-14 22:18:19 UTC
as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike should have actually been

as useful as **** on a bull
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#90 - 2012-11-14 22:33:53 UTC
"New Camera Mode that will keep both you and your selected item on screen. Don’t like manually panning around space trying to locate where your dastardly foe is? ... "

and

"In-Space DPS indicator so you can see which bastard is giving you a bloody nose"

For a tackler trying to keep up a high traversal against many targets, knowing the DPS and the direction its coming from would assist them trying to keep a high traversal when manual piloting.

It would be good if this In-Space DPS indicator also showed the direction the damage is coming from for non-selected targets.
Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-11-14 23:45:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Katsuko
Georgiy Giggle wrote:
Alice Katsuko wrote:
Also, just because one thing mirrors another, does not make it more intuitive. It will take all of two minutes for a player to figure out which is the shield layer, and which the hull for any reasonable HP display. The issue is not whether the locked target HP is intuitive to read so much as whether it is easy to read once you know what it represents.


Is it hard for you just to see it one time and to remember for ever? Or your brain can't contain such a huge data?

Your asinine tone is not noticed.

But I will answer your question nonetheless. HP in EVE is not a static number; it can change quite a bit in a very short time due to inbound damage and repairs, especially outside of PvE. A Logistics pilot has to track an average of five targets which may be in various states of damage and under various levels of fire, has to keep track of the fleet broadcast window and the watch list, and has to be prepared to unlock those five targets and swap to new ones in a matter of seconds. That Logistics pilot also has to maintain proper position to avoid being scragged by the enemy fleet, has to watch his cap, has to maintain the cap chain if in a Basilisk or a Guardian against jamming, has to ensure that his modules are properly counter-cycled and overheated. Among other various things. I'm sure some CCP devs have flown Logistics in big and hectic engagements, and can confirm the above.

In short, being able to read the HP of multiple targets is very important. The minute of thought a new player saves because the targeting icons mirror the active ship's HUD HP display, will be paid back by him a thousand-fold if he has to waste additional time getting the information he needs.

I am not criticizing for the sake of criticism. I very much like all of the other features and functionality that will be introduced in Retribution, even if I never expect use some of them, and even though some of them will undoubtedly further stress my machine. But I do not think that copying the current HP HUD in miniature is the best way to display target HP. A fair number of players appear to agree.

And I did offer an alternative system that seems to be fairly intuitive and easy to read. And I am curious if such a system was mocked up in internal tests and found in some regard to be deficient.

Personally, I don't care whether the final system uses bars, layers, or a squiggly line to display HP, so long as it is easy to read. From what I understand, the system currently on the test server is not the final version, and the final version will be easier to read. Or at least CCP has recognized that the current version of the target HP display is not as easy to read as would be ideal. So am looking forward to what happens between now and the release.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#92 - 2012-11-15 00:16:10 UTC
CCP Masheen wrote:
Big thank you to all the fine scallywags that hang out on Duality and Buckingham, the public test servers we've testing our new features on. Especially those who show up for the mass tests! The detailed and constructive feedback we've received has really helped get these features to where they are today and will help get them to the quality they'll be on December 4th! <3

Big smile (but please keep the feedback coming if you've never see these changes before)


You mean the ones that don't just blob people testing stuff in vindis with carrier reps then?

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Alex Cortex
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-11-15 01:31:27 UTC
Awesome, the UI changes look great as always. Smile

I like the camera mode idea (haven't had a chance to see it yet), but if you're implementing that, any chance we can get a 'cinematic' camera mode while you're at it? Just a camera that pulls back and doesn't follow the ship so much, like in the trailers. So if you warp, for example, you actually see your ship warp out and disappear. Not necessary, but it'd be cool. Cool
Luka Datitties
Star-Gate Command
#94 - 2012-11-15 03:47:23 UTC
I like the ticks in the icon damage readout. I would prefer that they be bigger though. How about 20 in total to represent 5% HP per tick? Since you can easily figure out where 50% is, you could at a glance more or less count up or down the other 10 to get an accurate HP % if you like.
moose crap
Hyperdawn
#95 - 2012-11-15 05:35:06 UTC
Why does CCP say this matches the current HUD? Last I checked all my windows were still square. And why is this being forced? I'm fine with the current system, please make this optional (but I know they won't).
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#96 - 2012-11-15 08:22:59 UTC
Castor targets are backShocked

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#97 - 2012-11-15 09:32:04 UTC
Great changes, I only hope you can avoid same amount of drama we got when tooltips were introduced :)

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Black Panthera
#98 - 2012-11-15 10:53:53 UTC
CCP please give us previous target HP bars!

This 'new' look is really a step back and reminds of EvE On-line 2003Evil

This is much better ...
Carol Krabit
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#99 - 2012-11-15 11:42:18 UTC
Is there an "Enable/disable camera tracking" hotkey?

Also nice changes. I really like the new targets. Higher resolution and much easier to compare to your own "bars" at a glance.
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#100 - 2012-11-15 12:12:33 UTC
TBA looks better as it was before when the circles were on all targets with the armor, shield, and structure status's inside the cross-hairs. Bad idea to make it look exactly like our main HP hub for every target without one in the cross-hairs. I would like to have that as a option to toggle to.