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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6061 - 2012-11-13 15:10:23 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
You're well entitled to your opinion and HML DO need tuned, however that is no excuse for the above.


http://drkx.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=7721288

That isn't reason to say "don't nerf heavy missiles because they are already bad".
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#6062 - 2012-11-13 16:00:09 UTC
I didn't say they were, but please - continue with distractions and misdirections from the post you quoted ...

As I say, you ignore relevant comments and tend to reply with with "yeah but what about THIS!?"
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#6063 - 2012-11-14 00:34:57 UTC
Can't wait to see what kinds of new setups will become viable come Dec. 4th!

My only problems are:
I started EFT-warrioring a blap-phoenix before reading the "subcap only" part of missile changes What?

Going to have to remember what different lasers look like in space.

I can't wait until you hit the capital ships/interceptors! My Nano-Niddy and Taranis are dusty!
Cazador 64
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6064 - 2012-11-14 10:59:05 UTC
Nerf 425 MM Auto cannons http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 Logic
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6065 - 2012-11-14 11:28:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Cazador 64 wrote:
Nerf 425 MM Auto cannons http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 Logic


800* dps at 3,9 km? Scary especially since even Brutix does more at 4,5 km with better tracking.

* = 6x425mm + 2xHAML
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#6066 - 2012-11-14 11:51:49 UTC  |  Edited by: OldWolf69
This all is rly fun. Single thing for me to ask is WHEN we do get NEW content. Nope, i don't mean shady role ships noone will fly. No, i also don't mean nerfs. I mean palpable new content. Like what WH's were once back in time. Balance? ImBalance? Just have a look at the aggresion mechanics, or the risks for gankers, and you begin to laugh, like i did, and most of us also do.
***"We cannot match the GREATNESS of our ancestors"***
This could be the today's CCP motto. Because what we get is cheap nerf instead of new content.Big smile
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#6067 - 2012-11-14 15:38:03 UTC
OldWolf69 wrote:
This all is rly fun. Single thing for me to ask is WHEN we do get NEW content. Nope, i don't mean shady role ships noone will fly. No, i also don't mean nerfs. I mean palpable new content. Like what WH's were once back in time. Balance? ImBalance? Just have a look at the aggresion mechanics, or the risks for gankers, and you begin to laugh, like i did, and most of us also do.
***"We cannot match the GREATNESS of our ancestors"***
This could be the today's CCP motto. Because what we get is cheap nerf instead of new content.Big smile


Do you get bored if pointless new ships don't get rolled out every half a year or something?
Maratega
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6068 - 2012-11-14 17:08:46 UTC
Since HML will be more popular, please make possible use with Auto-targeting missiles!

And what about with defender missiles?
They are useless.
Rebalance that too! Or just remove, and remove from NPC use of defender missiles.
That would compensate some from the nerf, and make your customers happier.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6069 - 2012-11-14 17:38:16 UTC
Maratega wrote:
And what about with defender missiles?
They are useless.
Rebalance that too! Or just remove, and remove from NPC use of defender missiles.
That would compensate some from the nerf, and make your customers happier.


I agree. Also make it so that smartbombs don't affect missiles that fly through.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#6070 - 2012-11-14 20:48:40 UTC
CCP Foozie,

Just to let you know, every time I come back to this thread I feel like I have died just a little bit more.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Giribaldi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6071 - 2012-11-15 00:08:43 UTC
Im going to restate my previose post on page 301...

what i think needs to be done is bring heavy missle range up to par with med guns range sniping mods... I dont have eft open atm but well use examples for the mean time... 720mm arties tw reach 75km with long range t2 ammo heavies need to tobe nerfed to the same range with movement of ship calculate so prrob raw range wih max skills being 87km to compensate for movement and the fact that there missiles they should go further...max skills being the obviose factor in my calculations... Then increase heavies dps to do 10-15% more dmg then all mid class long range weaponsfor the sheer fact that there instant ..missiles have to travel... Which should bring them down from i think 320dps to 180 not sure thou but u see where im going with this... Then second stage... Ham range needa to be 18-20 km max skills (not inculdig rigs or implants in any factor of my calculation in post).. Increase dmg of present dps to match others but have them do 5% more for the fact that once again flight time... I think its a start... May or may not be balanced... Im on my phone so number crunching and fit testing is not optional... (all calcs are done with t2 rage ammo ie 18kmwith rage 23-25 faction/t1 27-29 lr t2 ammo... Also making there pg match heavy missiles would be perfect to... Seeing as srguns have way less pg usage then therenlr companions... Thx
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6072 - 2012-11-15 02:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Giribaldi wrote:
Im going to restate my previose post on page 301...

what i think needs to be done is bring heavy missle range up to par with med guns range sniping mods... I dont have eft open atm but well use examples for the mean time... 720mm arties tw reach 75km with long range t2 ammo heavies need to tobe nerfed to the same range with movement of ship calculate so prrob raw range wih max skills being 87km to compensate for movement and the fact that there missiles they should go further...max skills being the obviose factor in my calculations... Then increase heavies dps to do 10-15% more dmg then all mid class long range weaponsfor the sheer fact that there instant ..missiles have to travel... Which should bring them down from i think 320dps to 180 not sure thou but u see where im going with this... Then second stage... Ham range needa to be 18-20 km max skills (not inculdig rigs or implants in any factor of my calculation in post).. Increase dmg of present dps to match others but have them do 5% more for the fact that once again flight time... I think its a start... May or may not be balanced... Im on my phone so number crunching and fit testing is not optional... (all calcs are done with t2 rage ammo ie 18kmwith rage 23-25 faction/t1 27-29 lr t2 ammo... Also making there pg match heavy missiles would be perfect to... Seeing as srguns have way less pg usage then therenlr companions... Thx


Would using Ferox and 250mm as point where to balance missiles be better?

Ferox can hit to 97,2 + 15 km with 250mm and Spike before TC/TE, range rigs and implants. Add 10% because you will lose that otherwise because missiles have to accelerate to max velocity.

So range for ship without range bonus like a Drake before any range rigs or implants would be:
112,2 + 11,22 km = 123,42 km in EFT
112,2 ish km in game
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#6073 - 2012-11-15 10:27:01 UTC
Giribaldi wrote:
Im going to restate my previose post on page 301...

what i think needs to be done is bring heavy missle range up to par with med guns range sniping mods... I dont have eft open atm but well use examples for the mean time... 720mm arties tw reach 75km with long range t2 ammo heavies need to tobe nerfed to the same range with movement of ship calculate so prrob raw range wih max skills being 87km to compensate for movement and the fact that there missiles they should go further...max skills being the obviose factor in my calculations... Then increase heavies dps to do 10-15% more dmg then all mid class long range weaponsfor the sheer fact that there instant ..missiles have to travel... Which should bring them down from i think 320dps to 180 not sure thou but u see where im going with this... Then second stage... Ham range needa to be 18-20 km max skills (not inculdig rigs or implants in any factor of my calculation in post).. Increase dmg of present dps to match others but have them do 5% more for the fact that once again flight time... I think its a start... May or may not be balanced... Im on my phone so number crunching and fit testing is not optional... (all calcs are done with t2 rage ammo ie 18kmwith rage 23-25 faction/t1 27-29 lr t2 ammo... Also making there pg match heavy missiles would be perfect to... Seeing as srguns have way less pg usage then therenlr companions... Thx

In fact, for HML to do only 10-15% more dps than medLR weapons at range, you would need to NERF their dps GREATLY. Because even post patch, you still are looking at a 40-50% dps advantage at long range.
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#6074 - 2012-11-15 15:23:21 UTC
Aglais wrote:
OldWolf69 wrote:
This all is rly fun. Single thing for me to ask is WHEN we do get NEW content. Nope, i don't mean shady role ships noone will fly. No, i also don't mean nerfs. I mean palpable new content. Like what WH's were once back in time. Balance? ImBalance? Just have a look at the aggresion mechanics, or the risks for gankers, and you begin to laugh, like i did, and most of us also do.
***"We cannot match the GREATNESS of our ancestors"***
This could be the today's CCP motto. Because what we get is cheap nerf instead of new content.Big smile


Do you get bored if pointless new ships don't get rolled out every half a year or something?

***
Tbh, i don't care bout the new ships. I care about the lack of real content. Adding ships means adding tools. Not quite what one would expect as content.
Giribaldi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6075 - 2012-11-15 20:01:32 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Giribaldi wrote:
Im going to restate my previose post on page 301...

what i think needs to be done is bring heavy missle range up to par with med guns range sniping mods... I dont have eft open atm but well use examples for the mean time... 720mm arties tw reach 75km with long range t2 ammo heavies need to tobe nerfed to the same range with movement of ship calculate so prrob raw range wih max skills being 87km to compensate for movement and the fact that there missiles they should go further...max skills being the obviose factor in my calculations... Then increase heavies dps to do 10-15% more dmg then all mid class long range weaponsfor the sheer fact that there instant ..missiles have to travel... Which should bring them down from i think 320dps to 180 not sure thou but u see where im going with this... Then second stage... Ham range needa to be 18-20 km max skills (not inculdig rigs or implants in any factor of my calculation in post).. Increase dmg of present dps to match others but have them do 5% more for the fact that once again flight time... I think its a start... May or may not be balanced... Im on my phone so number crunching and fit testing is not optional... (all calcs are done with t2 rage ammo ie 18kmwith rage 23-25 faction/t1 27-29 lr t2 ammo... Also making there pg match heavy missiles would be perfect to... Seeing as srguns have way less pg usage then therenlr companions... Thx

In fact, for HML to do only 10-15% more dps than medLR weapons at range, you would need to NERF their dps GREATLY. Because even post patch, you still are looking at a 40-50% dps advantage at long range.


Thats what im saying... Bro... Im saying if the max long range weopon with sr ammo equivalent to rage does 100 dps then the drake should do 110-115... Long range ammo 75dps then drake does 86 (my math is wrong im geussing the number) but thatsbwhat i mean... Cus of travel time they should do more dmg for the fact that within the time it takes to hit u v hit me twice... U could warp off and avoid my first salvo all together... Just saying
Gerald Mardiska
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6076 - 2012-11-16 03:32:33 UTC
so my drake is going to the grave.......
Vartan Sarkisian
Phoenix Connection
Lack of Judgement.
#6077 - 2012-11-16 14:47:39 UTC
I guess we'll have to see what the changes are, if the nerf is so severe that everyone abandons drakes and tengus then I guess we'll be seeing a missile buff to undo the missile nerf that happens this time.

personally I understand the range nerf if it is so far beyond what other similar modules do, but the 20% damage, on a system that isn't instant damage is the thing that concerns me the most. but sell off all your heavy missiles no, or they will be collecting dust as no one uses them anymore.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6078 - 2012-11-16 18:25:40 UTC
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:
I guess we'll have to see what the changes are, if the nerf is so severe that everyone abandons drakes and tengus then I guess we'll be seeing a missile buff to undo the missile nerf that happens this time.

personally I understand the range nerf if it is so far beyond what other similar modules do, but the 20% damage, on a system that isn't instant damage is the thing that concerns me the most. but sell off all your heavy missiles no, or they will be collecting dust as no one uses them anymore.


You could say that...
HML Tengu: 700+ dps @ 100 km
250mm Tengu: 329 dps @ 23 km / 188 dps @ 168 km
DarkMasterAnt
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6079 - 2012-11-16 21:04:47 UTC
Just had a look at those numbers, is it just me or does this fix just make heavy missiles a crappier version of hams now?

This isnt fixing the problem, its just bringing the two weapon systems closer together on their capabilities.... Leaving caldari with no long range missile boat for medium weapons
Kenshi Hanshin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6080 - 2012-11-17 01:39:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenshi Hanshin
DarkMasterAnt wrote:
Just had a look at those numbers, is it just me or does this fix just make heavy missiles a crappier version of hams now?

This isnt fixing the problem, its just bringing the two weapon systems closer together on their capabilities.... Leaving caldari with no long range missile boat for medium weapons

The Cruiser balances may help to alleviate that.

See the re-balanced bonuses for the Caracal. The Caracal will be a long-range missile boat with bonuses to missile velocity and rate of fire.

The Drake will lose some range but that can be easily regained with a good fitting skills (tank) and the use of rigs for range.

The real question is whether the Caldari will get a dedicated missile boat of some worth for the BC or BS sizes. The drake is good as is, should stay that way. ASBs were and are the salvation for those who want to use shield tanks in PvP. The real questions are: how will CMs and Torps be changed and what will the new Caldari Battleship bonuses be post re-balance? Keeping in mind that excluding the Rohk, they are a laughing stock (wrt PvP capability).